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Pepsi: Breathtaking Design Strategy (2008) [pdf]

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Re: Pepsi: Breathtaking Design Strategy (2008) [pdf]

#261

Post by barbecue_sauce »

nbzso wrote: post #247

A long time ago, I ran a creative agency. One day, I realized how my and my colleagues' talents were being used to sell utter bullshit. Closed the business and switched to web-design. In early 2005, I convinced a big local banking tech company to focus on UX and UCD. Started a UX design business. In late 2015, overwhelmed by the infinite need for Dark Patterns by my clients, I killed "the business" again and switched…

There's very little in this specific document that has anything to do with manipulation besides maybe the manipulation of marketing executives.

Re: Pepsi: Breathtaking Design Strategy (2008) [pdf]

#262

Post by kizer »

I was reading and laughing, wondering if HN was taking this seriously. It’s a decent logo IMO (though I think it’s unpopular) but obviously the paper is filled to the brim with complete bullshit, LOL. The Pepsi galaxy at the end is what really got me.

Just use common sense and first principles and you can make a logo. Make sure it doesn’t look like a you-know-what and you’re golden.

Re: Pepsi: Breathtaking Design Strategy (2008) [pdf]

#264

Post by ncmncm »

willbw wrote: post #176
ncmncm wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, ask them . It is their job to know. You have already said you don't trust me. Be sure to report back what they tell you.

Ignoring who is wrong or right here - you made the claim, it's not very helpful if you refuse to substantiate it or suggest someone else needs to substantiate it for you.

Notably, this person has not reported any results.

Most likely they don't actually know any endocrinologists, or were told that in fact uric acid is known to be the connection between fructose metabolism / fatty liver and metabolic syndrome illnesses.

Some people just feel compelled to jump up and defend sugar anytime it is blamed for illness.

Re: Pepsi: Breathtaking Design Strategy (2008) [pdf]

#265

Post by danachow »

ncmncm wrote: post #264
willbw wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring who is wrong or right here - you made the claim, it's not very helpful if you refuse to substantiate it or suggest someone else needs to substantiate it for you.

Notably, this person has not reported any results. Most likely they don't actually know any endocrinologists, or were told that in fact uric acid is known to be the connection between fructose metabolism / fatty liver and metabolic syndrome illnesses. Some people just feel compelled to jump up and defend sugar anytime it is blamed for illness.

> this person has not reported any results.

Ironic since you are the one making the claim and have not produced any references. I can’t prove they don’t exist but you could easily counter if one did.

Furthermore I linked to one peer reviewed review article, again https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4078442/

that is chock full of balanced references if anyone is so inclined to peruse them and takes a critical examination at the various publications and the arguments can be evaluated solely on merits alone. There is continued research in this area but so far no smoking gun as to causality.

There are no meta-analyses I know of on your specific claim as there is a lack of primary research in human subjects to even substantiate it.

> Most likely they don't actually know any endocrinologists

I’m a practicing academic internist. I know endocrinologists both personally and professionally. This is absolutely irrelevant though as the literature is available for you.

> Some people just feel compelled to jump up and defend sugar

I did nothing of the sort. I treat diabetes and hyperlipidemia on the daily - that would be ridiculous.

Edit: oh and I missed your edit - a reference to Perlmutter? A celebrity neurologist who has widely been debunked for making wildly unsubstantiated claims. You are not arguing in good faith. You have the entirety of PubMed and Google scholar on which to reference peer reviewed literature - some of it is also crap - but you aren’t even doing that - you are sticking to the lowest quality unsubstantiated celebrity bilge.

Re: Pepsi: Breathtaking Design Strategy (2008) [pdf]

#266

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

mrcartmeneses wrote: post #167
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their new design was just yet another example of how the currently in vogue "minimalism everywhere" design aesthetic sucks. The Tropicana case study is such a great example because the effects were so drastic, but only really because there were easily substituted goods - consumers basically thought the carton was just "generic store brand OJ". My guess is that other recent brand redesigns to this boring, same, sans-s…

Saying that this guy's designs were terrible therefore all modern design is terrible is like saying all children's TV presenters are pedophiles (apologies I know that's an extreme analogy). The truth is that the guy behind this design agency is not a good designer at all and his career seems to have been driven by confidence, greed and the incompetence of his clients. It's a sample of one. He's the Jimmy Saville of b…

Which is why I linked the related recent HN post about tons of different brands, across tech and fashion, that wiped out any trace of their individuality for bold, sans-serif logos.

I agree, I think this designer is just a particularly shitty designer, but he's a shitty designer that's just copying the broader trend of minimalist design laziness. I think the last section in that linked HN article (https://velvetshark.com/articles/why-do-brands-change-their-...) perfectly points out what went wrong in the Tropicana redesign as well:

> There’s nothing bad in wanting your logo to look simpler, better, mobile-ready, or universal enough to appeal to the broadest possible audience.

> But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

> Shoot for simplicity and legibility, but keep your distinguishing features. Don’t throw away what the brand has been working on for decades.

> Otherwise, you may end up in a situation where you could slap any logo on any product and hardly anyone would notice a difference:

Re: Pepsi: Breathtaking Design Strategy (2008) [pdf]

#267

Post by danachow »

ncmncm wrote: post #164
dm319 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure metabolic syndrome is a thing, but can you point to me evidence it is caused by these drinks? I agree re: the metabolic pathways, but yet to be convinced that most of these issues are not primarily caused by obesity. And sure, drinking enough sugar will result in obesity, but so will eating too much carbs or fat.

Obesity is a separate morbidity. 30% of obese Americans are not actually ill. But 40% of non-obese Americans are sick with metabolic syndrome. So, more than are obese and sick, by the raw numbers. Obesity is a big problem in the US, but metabolic syndrome is a bigger problem, and suffering both is worse than either alone. Pakistan has as much metabolic syndrome as other former UK colonies, but remarkably little obesi…

> But 40% of non-obese Americans are sick with metabolic syndrome.

40% of the non obese adult population in the US? More BS dude.

It should be easy to point to some relatively reputable public health agency or peer reviewed publication where this is substantiated.

Among non overweight individuals I’m going to peg it more around 5%.

Re: Pepsi: Breathtaking Design Strategy (2008) [pdf]

#268

Post by nbzso »

barbecue_sauce wrote: post #261
nbzso wrote: post #247

A long time ago, I ran a creative agency. One day, I realized how my and my colleagues' talents were being used to sell utter bullshit. Closed the business and switched to web-design. In early 2005, I convinced a big local banking tech company to focus on UX and UCD. Started a UX design business. In late 2015, overwhelmed by the infinite need for Dark Patterns by my clients, I killed "the business" again and switched…

There's very little in this specific document that has anything to do with manipulation besides maybe the manipulation of marketing executives.

Yep, in my view this document falls into category of "Corporate Self-validation".

Re: Pepsi: Breathtaking Design Strategy (2008) [pdf]

#269

Post by AndyJames »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #190
femto wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole CD doesn't shatter, but the edges of the break do. To see this effect on steroids, put a CD through a shredder: a common security procedure. You're playing Russian Roulette with your eyeballs if you don't wear eye protection when doing this.

What on earth are you doing that's causing this? I've never seen a shredded do anything other than chop a CD into little strips.

I personally broke many CDs, it's kinda hard to do but when they snap small bits from broken edges fly off everywhere. I even saw CD that broke inside of drive. Granted it was put in with a crack in the middle but still it broke. Maybe it's just my feeling but I think that CDs back in the days was made out of a bit less flexible, ticker and more brittle plastic. Those produced today I can bend in half and they don't snap as easily as 20 years ago
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