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Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

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Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#51

Post by bluGill »

aetherson wrote: post #26
mirashii wrote: post #2

From a tweet: https://twitter.com/TeamYouTube/status/1546419223466999809#m > & thx for your patience as we sorted it out But they haven't really sorted it out, have they? False copyright strike claims have been plaguing creators for years. This is just another case of someone needing social media and a huge reach or an inside connection to Google employees to get human eyes on a situation and "resolve" it, with no re…

They haven't sorted it out, but it's also fundamentally not really something that Google can sort out. They have a legal responsibility to respond to these copyright claims, with major penalties if they don't -- this is from DMCA and its successors, from an era of... I don't want to say "copyright maximalism," but something closer to copyright maximalism than the balance is today. We need to reform the legal responsi…

What we need is the ability to face our accuser. YouTube is more or less doing the right thing execpt they are not giving anyone the legal contact information of the accuser. If I post something, and it is reported I should have the option to take my accuser to court for a false accusation.

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#52

Post by corrral »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #42
corrral wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not following me. I'm not saying youtube channels should be podcasts. I'm saying that the problem with YouTube is its monopoly, driven by coupling hosting and discovery in one platform, and a podcast model that separates those would improve the ecosystem and solve most of the problems with YouTube being able to dictate terms for an entire super-popular form of creative content . > Secondly, podcasting seems to…

My bad, I misunderstood your comment. FWIW I agree on both counts, but I'm also saying is that podcasts are falling to centralisation pressures that plagued video since the very beginning.

> My bad, I misunderstood your comment.

Heh, no big deal, that "like" in the original was crucial and easy to scan past. These things happen.

> FWIW I agree on both counts, but I'm also saying is that podcasts are falling to centralisation pressures that plagued video since the very beginning.

More generally I think the Internet and the markets growing on it would be a hell of a lot healthier if we outlawed the creepy & dangerous mass data collection that encourages lock-in and monopolization, and the video market specifically (including streaming services like Netflix and friends) if we outlawed certain kinds of vertical integration there. Economy of scale is quite enough to push things toward monopoly, no need to have those factors amplifying the effect and increasing the harm of such monopolies.

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#53

Post by the_third_wave »

lucakiebel wrote: post #4

There has to be a way to make copyright takedowns less harmful to creators. It’s crazy that mostly anyone can take down a stream like this that easily

There is: don't rely on a single hosting provider for your material. Use Youtube as a CDN for material originating from a self-hosted Peertube instance and you're protected. Add some patronage/sponsorship/subscription options to replace or enhance any lost income from Youtube and you're set on that front as well.

Centralised services are fine to use as content delivery networks but they are not reliable as single sources for your material. Self-hosting - i.e. where you own the domain through which the material is distributed, you can choose to leave the actual hosting to a hosting provider since you always have the option of redirecting the domain to another address should the hosting provider fold in some way - gives control over a far larger part of the distribution chain, if the copyright police wants to block you they'll have to move down in the protocol stack to take down your internet access. We're not there yet and should it ever come that far there are ways around that as well (IPFS, I2P etc.).

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#54

Post by corrral »

toolz wrote: post #31

I wish these creators with other social media presence would use their platforms to move their audience to something besides youtube (they can even keep their youtube presence). Content creators are the only ones with the power to build up a competing platform such that youtube has to stop hurting the creators or risk losing their monopoly status as the de-factor video hosting platform. Imagine if this content creato…

> I wish these creators with other social media presence would use their platforms to move their audience to something besides youtube (they can even keep their youtube presence).

Coupling discovery and hosting means you're either killing your business by trying to do this, or finding temporary refuge with another soon-to-be monopolist that'll start abusing you in the same ways before long.

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#55

Post by kevinh »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #45
aetherson wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They haven't sorted it out, but it's also fundamentally not really something that Google can sort out. They have a legal responsibility to respond to these copyright claims, with major penalties if they don't -- this is from DMCA and its successors, from an era of... I don't want to say "copyright maximalism," but something closer to copyright maximalism than the balance is today. We need to reform the legal responsi…

They can sort it out readily simply by implementing the part of the DMCA they don't support yet. If the falsely accused were allowed to submit a counternotice with instant restoration none of this trolling behavior would be happening

The DMCA doesn't support instant restoration for a counter-notice. They have to wait for a ~2 week period for the copyright owner to have time to sue alleged infringer.

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#56

Post by corrral »

StewardMcOy wrote: post #50
toolz wrote: post #31

I wish these creators with other social media presence would use their platforms to move their audience to something besides youtube (they can even keep their youtube presence). Content creators are the only ones with the power to build up a competing platform such that youtube has to stop hurting the creators or risk losing their monopoly status as the de-factor video hosting platform. Imagine if this content creato…

I think it's a really, really tough sell to move people off YouTube. The network effects are just too good. I might be projecting my preferences onto the masses here, but I suspect this is a common feeling. I've been watching quite a few videos from a fairly popular Youtube channel, tldrnews. At the beginning of a lot of their videos, they've been advertising an alternate video platform, Nebula, with exclusive and mo…

> I know it's greedy and irrational, but I want everything centralized into one service so I don't have to think about where to go to watch a thing. I want a monopoly, but without the problems that come with a monopoly, and I suspect a large enough percentage of users feel the same way that other platforms just can't get off the ground.

Podcast model. Client handles discovery and "subscriptions" and all that. Hosting is separate. YouTube's immense control comes from controlling all of that, but there's no reason you have to have a single provider to get the everything's-in-one-place effect—you can instead empower client programs. That kills the "ugh, but I don't want to go to another site..." effect because it's simply not an issue. You click "subscribe" and it's in the same "app" as everything else, regardless of where the videos are hosted.

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#57

Post by guerrilla »

visarga wrote: post #43
guerrilla wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a whole long thread on Twitter of screenshots of (big) creators themselves getting copyright strikes for their own work and being like WTF. It seems a lot more rampant than people may be aware...

Just a couple of days ago there was a Noam Chomsky interview on the Machine Learning Street Talk channel. The whole video is almost 4h long, including a long intro. The MLST crew worked for months on it, posted it, and it got promptly banned. https://mobile.twitter.com/danbri/status/1545760855052193792 The reason - they quoted a small Richard Feynman clip from an archive BBC show. After fixing it took 12 more hours t…

Damn that opening was beautiful. Like this format, never heard of this show. Noam is so old now though... Still listening, a lot more philosophical than I was expecting. He really quoted Bakunin? :) Thanks for sharing.

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#58

Post by mirashii »

aetherson wrote: post #26
mirashii wrote: post #2

From a tweet: https://twitter.com/TeamYouTube/status/1546419223466999809#m > & thx for your patience as we sorted it out But they haven't really sorted it out, have they? False copyright strike claims have been plaguing creators for years. This is just another case of someone needing social media and a huge reach or an inside connection to Google employees to get human eyes on a situation and "resolve" it, with no re…

They haven't sorted it out, but it's also fundamentally not really something that Google can sort out. They have a legal responsibility to respond to these copyright claims, with major penalties if they don't -- this is from DMCA and its successors, from an era of... I don't want to say "copyright maximalism," but something closer to copyright maximalism than the balance is today. We need to reform the legal responsi…

Let's pretend for a minute that Google's DMCA system is actually necessary to comply with the law (other commenters below poke a number of holes in that claim, I don't need to repeat them here), and that it's the DMCA that's the primary method by which copyright strikes happen (also questionable and discussed in other comments).

Even given those things, Google is complicit in the legal landscape being what it is today. Google has regularly defended the DMCA, and claimed it's working well. They're the largest lobbying organization in the tech world. They've even spent time and money defending other providers (e.g. Hotfile) in court for not implementing filtering, arguing that it's not necessary to receive DMCA's safe harbor provisions, but have implemented content identification and filtering in-spite of that.

Re: Lofi Girl: YouTube sorry for taking down music stream

#60

Post by Cyberdog »

That poor kid has been studying for two and a half years now. I really hope she's able to pass that test; it seems like a real nightmare.

That aside, do we know the claim was really bogus? The article doesn't seem to mention that. It does seem like a rather easy grift to just nab a bunch of MP3 files plus some artwork from DeviantArt, throw them into IceCast or whatever, and go live on YouTube. I've listened to a few similar streams (not this one in particular since the "lo-fi hip-hop" genre isn't my thing) and just kinda always assumed the whole YT meta was basically a bunch of pirate radio stations.

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