BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea • Hacker News Board

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#231

Post by throw93232 » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 2:40 PM UTC

panick21_ wrote: post #206

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #79

We are rapidly moving towards Feudalism. If someone can charge you for using things you already bought and 'own', then average man has no property rights. The fee could be increased at any time, or new fees could be introduced. As the housing crysis deepens, average person will never own a home either. So average person will be in the same position as a medieval serf, conpletely dependand on the whims of the lord, pr…

> We are rapidly moving towards Feudalism. I hate when people say that. This has literally nothing to do with the historic institution of feudalism. Its is the opposite of actually educating people on actual feudalism. Its just using historical terms that people call not to be 'bad' so you don't actually have to explain the problem. We are literally talking about people who can buy a BMW. Did BMW promise them heated…

Feudalism was more like slavery. Serfs could not marry, move or own land without permission. Serfs could be sold (not individuals but entire villages). Comparing it to BMW ownership is disgusting!

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#232

Post by chrisseaton » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 2:41 PM UTC

dbetteridge wrote: post #222

chrisseaton wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> something you already paid for No - you can either pay for the option one-time up front (the article says), or you can pay a subscription. You don't pay for the option up-front and also pay the subscription. Depending on your circumstances, one of these two ways to pay will be cheaper for you. It may be the subscription. Or you can not pay at all and never pay for the feature and forget about it. If you never pay a…

You have purchase the physical hardware... The fact that you need to purchase additional software to enable that is absolutely insane and wasteful

> The fact that you need to purchase additional software to enable that is absolutely insane and wasteful

I don't know - could be less wasteful to ship identical hardware to everyone. An example from another sector is did you know low end processor chips are often exactly the same as higher end ones, just with features burned off? It means they can re-use imperfect chips, reducing waste, and they can have a simpler production line, reducing costs.

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#233

Post by themodelplumber » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 2:41 PM UTC

jms703 wrote: post #215

I can see why a car manufacturer would not want to make two versions of each car, one with heated seats and one without. Instead, build it into all of them, and only activate and charge those that actually need it. Also, the subscription is an option. You can also pay the full price for the feature. Where I live, I could see using this once or two months a year. Whereas some would need it more and they might just buy…

Plus you could buy or make other economical heating solutions for your seats...BMW driver notwithstanding

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#234

Post by t0mas88 » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 2:42 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #94

alldayeveryday wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's more things like replacing tires at least once a year (which I think high torque EVs will do even faster), then at about 100k miles they replaced the wishbones / control arms. I've not heard of tires that need replacing once a year, unless you are doing an insane amount of driving. Tires are generally lasting 50k, 60k, even 85k miles. Can you elaborate on the scenarios that require yearly tire replacements?

Low profile tires do not last 50k much less 85k miles. Lots of BMW tires are front/rear and left/right which means you can’t rotate. People on the X7 forms said they had to start changing tires around 20-25k. My coworker had a Leaf and said he went through rear tires 2x as fast.

This. For example a BMW 550i eats rear tires under heavy acceleration and front tires under sporty cornering, because it's not a light weight car. Worse for low-profile and sporty tires, better grip but softer rubber.

A BMW 550i has similar horse power as a Tesla Model 3 performance, but I think like any EV the Tesla delivers even more low-end torque. So it can kill tires even faster, and it's all-wheel-drive...

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#235

Post by anonymousab » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 2:42 PM UTC

colinmhayes wrote: post #220

ghostpepper wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying an old car doesn’t really solve the problem in general, it just solves it for you, temporarily.

The auto sector is one of the most competitive in the world. There are tons of automakers that don’t have subscription services.

For now. The problem is that anticonsumer grift will eventually pervade the entire space. If not prevented legally then it will just be a matter of time, because incidental cooperation between all competitors is just so much better for them than trying to compete on this point.

And this is an industry where starting a competitor is simply not feasible without incomprehensible amounts of capital.

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#236

Post by lkxijlewlf » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 2:44 PM UTC

How soon until your car tells BMW that it's cold outside and BMW turns on the heated seats and puts an ad on your display, "For just $18/Month, this feature could be yours!"

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#237

Post by llllllllllllk » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 2:44 PM UTC

bsedlm wrote: post #225

panick21_ wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are rapidly moving towards Feudalism. I hate when people say that. This has literally nothing to do with the historic institution of feudalism. Its is the opposite of actually educating people on actual feudalism. Its just using historical terms that people call not to be 'bad' so you don't actually have to explain the problem. We are literally talking about people who can buy a BMW. Did BMW promise them heated…

> Many people manage to pay of their student loans and don't have to live in debt if they don't want to. yikes... this strikes me as quite similar to this line of reasoning: "poor people are poor because they just don't want to work"

This is a weird take to read when you're someone who dropped out of college when the debt load got too scary and had learned enough to gain a marketable skill and enter industry. Paid my debt off in a couple years. This was less than a decade ago, too, I'm not that old.

Tuition has been frozen at my university since I left so the kids there now have the same exact choices I had

The big difference between me and my peers was that I did poorly academically my first year and it forced me to enter the work force and learn the value of the money I was borrowing, and after that I borrowed the minimum I could to remain in school, for the minimum time, as it was so expensive.

I'm supposed to believe that it's impossible to avoid... When I avoided it?

I even got screwed by federal assistance because my parents seemed financially healthier than they were. I paid for 90% of my own educational costs, by working part time. And like I said this was the late 00s, early 10s, I'm not telling a tale from the 70s

My wife has a similar story, but started out much poorer. Now we're both professionals sans degrees making over six figures, no debt. But that's impossible.

I get it, these are anecdotes. But student loan debt is a choice, and it's one we both avoided, so it's definitely possible to do.

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#238

Post by Joker_vD » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 2:44 PM UTC

colinmhayes wrote: post #220

ghostpepper wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying an old car doesn’t really solve the problem in general, it just solves it for you, temporarily.

The auto sector is one of the most competitive in the world. There are tons of automakers that don’t have subscription services.

Yet. Because if there is money in subscription services, they will add those — or go bust if they don't because, as you've said, it is one of the most competitive sectors in the world.

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#239

Post by pas » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 2:46 PM UTC

bsedlm wrote: post #225

panick21_ wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are rapidly moving towards Feudalism. I hate when people say that. This has literally nothing to do with the historic institution of feudalism. Its is the opposite of actually educating people on actual feudalism. Its just using historical terms that people call not to be 'bad' so you don't actually have to explain the problem. We are literally talking about people who can buy a BMW. Did BMW promise them heated…

> Many people manage to pay of their student loans and don't have to live in debt if they don't want to. yikes... this strikes me as quite similar to this line of reasoning: "poor people are poor because they just don't want to work"

no, it's simply the reality that there's quite a bit of range from the the constant late-stage-capitalism crowd's doomsday worldview to the libertarian/alt-right/whatever crowd's "snowflakes just want to have 30 genders and don't want to work" narrative.

yes, things could be better. (yes, a lot better if people suddenly were suprarational.) yes, there are metrics that regressed in the US, or even in the world in general (civil liberties for example)

but it's quite possible to look at each issue in context, and this approach is a lot healthier and more useful than adopting either extreme. (student debt is basically the perfect issue for this, because without context we can just throw anecdotes or useless overly general statements at each other. there's not even consensus about what's the problem. yes, tuition costs are high, and rising. yes, many people have trouble servicing their debt. and so on. but these are different - though of course interconnected - problems. nor is there consensus about who is most affected. should society instead focus on those who did not even have the opportunity to apply to collage? should we focus on those who dropped out due to financial hardship yet ended up with debt? both? neither? and so on.)

Re: BMW heated seats subscription costs $18 per month in South Korea

#240

Post by altdataseller » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

johnwalkr wrote: post #224

_fat_santa wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to disagree because at the end of the day, the consumer has a choice. BMW, Stellantis and other car makers are charging subscriptions for features. I see an immediate solution: buy another car. I see this argument a ton, people complain that new cars are too expensive, super high monthly payments and subscription features. Yes these are all problems but they are only problems if you choose to buy a new car. Se…

Kind of true but also not as true as it was pre-COVID. Used car prices skyrocketed during COVID to the point that people are selling their 2-3 year old cars for more than current new MSRP. And a 10 year old Corolla is often more than $10k. Prices are just now starting to come back down, but probably not to pre-COVID prices.

Used cars are now just $3k USD more than new cars, on average.

There should be absolutely no reason to buy a used car anymore.

I feel like I'm living in a bizarro world b/c everyone seems to claim buying a used car is the much better financial decision. It isn't for me, by a long margin.