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Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

theguardian.com

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Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#31

Post by mrtksn »

worik wrote: post #22
olivermarks wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment wasn't 'anti immigrant', I was pondering how the vast numbers of people flooding into Europe and the UK (and the US as well) can be accommodated given the chronic shortages of everything and difficult economy. The fallacy that all immigrants are hard working, clean living people slowly moving up the economic and societal ladder is popular with limo liberals who don't have to coexist and compete with the ne…

> he fallacy that all immigrants are hard working, clean living people slowly moving up the economic and societal ladder is popular with Have you any actual evidence? My experience is the opposite, for poor immigrants. Rich ones, on the other hand.... My prejudice is showing, is yours?

I know right? Rich immigrants buy houses that they don’t even live in, disturb the local economy with their purchasing power but it’s the hard working ones who are a strain to the system.

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#32

Post by mrtksn »

notch656a wrote: post #30
mrtksn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that if the immigrants were legal they would not work as hard and leech the social system unlike the natives?

I think the vast vast majority would continue to work hard. But leachers do exist, and given the opportunity, some will. The thing is the ones that are here illegally are already self selected as ones willing to work without social supports. ----------- >Leechers exist among natives too. Any particular reason to believe that it’s worse with the immigrants? No in fact I've stated the opposite. The incentive structure…

Leechers exist among natives too. Any particular reason to believe that it’s worse with the immigrants?

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#33

Post by notch656a »

worik wrote: post #25
notch656a wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country immigrants are high net contributors, but that is because they are illegal thus they get basically no benefits; or they are legal and thus they usually have a high bar (unless family sponsored) of being more educated or wealthy than our typical citizens.

> ut that is because they are illegal thus they get basically no benefits Evidence?

You don't understand that if society provides you no benefits, and you pay into taxes from otherwise (sans the fact you're an illegal immigrant) legitimate labor, it's almost impossible to be a net drain?

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#34

Post by [deleted] »

mrtksn wrote: post #15
notch656a wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that immigrants are a good thing. Especially illegal immigrants if they have no way to benefit from tax benefits but are forced to pay into it. It means they're basically forced to be a net benefit. The key is to make sure any benefits offered to immigrants are not a net drain on society. Usually this is the case, particularly if you just deny illegal immigrants any service while forcing them to pay taxes, bu…

That was well established that the immigrants are a net contributors(actually bigger contributors per capita in comparison to the locals) and actually a very small number of the immigrants take payments from the social security system. It doesn't make any sense to go to another country and possibly spend a lot of money and risk your life and live on bare minimum. Very small number of people take that path.

[deleted]

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#35

Post by raverbashing »

mrtksn wrote: post #23
olivermarks wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment wasn't 'anti immigrant', I was pondering how the vast numbers of people flooding into Europe and the UK (and the US as well) can be accommodated given the chronic shortages of everything and difficult economy. The fallacy that all immigrants are hard working, clean living people slowly moving up the economic and societal ladder is popular with limo liberals who don't have to coexist and compete with the ne…

I’m a multiple times immigrant and I’m yet to see those lazy immigrants. I’ve been illegal in Turkey and legal in UK and Germany as a EU citizen and worked as a waiter for months until get my first white collar job. No, I’m not speaking as a liberal who doesn’t have idea about the actual immigrants or the working class. I’ve been all of those.

Your haven't seen them because you've kept to places where they don't exist

Hospitality workers are usually sink or swim. You won't find many people but hard workers there (local or immigrants)

Now of course this ignores the ones that don't work and the cultural clashes that happen with lots of immigrants

Framing everything as "immigration good/bad" is of course the main issue, it's like saying you fix obesity with eating/not eating

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#36

Post by labster »

olivermarks wrote: post #3

Illegal immigration into the UK from the third world is far greater now than it was in the era of Mo Farah's childhood. I have to wonder how the UK social construct can survive with the huge numbers of people entering given the lack of housing, water, food etc https://youtu.be/PAeRejE467g

If you’re legitimately worried about excessive immigration, you should be doing everything you can to fight climate change. Hundreds of millions of people could be displaced by environmental disasters like sea level rise, typhoon flooding, drought, and famine. If you don’t want a repeat of the emigration at the end of the Bronze Age, we need to do all we can to stop climate change.

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#37

Post by lazyasciiart »

raverbashing wrote: post #35
mrtksn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a multiple times immigrant and I’m yet to see those lazy immigrants. I’ve been illegal in Turkey and legal in UK and Germany as a EU citizen and worked as a waiter for months until get my first white collar job. No, I’m not speaking as a liberal who doesn’t have idea about the actual immigrants or the working class. I’ve been all of those.

Your haven't seen them because you've kept to places where they don't exist Hospitality workers are usually sink or swim. You won't find many people but hard workers there (local or immigrants) Now of course this ignores the ones that don't work and the cultural clashes that happen with lots of immigrants Framing everything as "immigration good/bad" is of course the main issue, it's like saying you fix obesity with e…

#NoTrueExperienceWithImmigrants

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#38

Post by mrtksn »

raverbashing wrote: post #35
mrtksn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a multiple times immigrant and I’m yet to see those lazy immigrants. I’ve been illegal in Turkey and legal in UK and Germany as a EU citizen and worked as a waiter for months until get my first white collar job. No, I’m not speaking as a liberal who doesn’t have idea about the actual immigrants or the working class. I’ve been all of those.

Your haven't seen them because you've kept to places where they don't exist Hospitality workers are usually sink or swim. You won't find many people but hard workers there (local or immigrants) Now of course this ignores the ones that don't work and the cultural clashes that happen with lots of immigrants Framing everything as "immigration good/bad" is of course the main issue, it's like saying you fix obesity with e…

See, my exposure is not limited to hospitality because after work I didn’t go to my house in Chelsea. The first few weeks I went to my hostel in Isle of Dogs, Camden and Seven Sisters. Then I a went to my house share in Brixton, Peckham, Kilburn and Lewisham. I changed a lot of places because hostels have 1 week limit and renting is pain in the ars due to catch 22 on proof of address.

I met very large number of people from very different professions. Some unskilled, others blue collar and white collar. I’ve met legal and illegal people.

Where are all those lazy immigrants? Everyone was working.

I also don’t see any point of not working.

Also, the numbers suggest that the immigrants are indeed hard working and contributing more to the system than they take and their per person net contribution is higher that the natives.

What exactly makes you believe that the immigrants don’t work?

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#39

Post by [deleted] »

labster wrote: post #36
olivermarks wrote: post #3

Illegal immigration into the UK from the third world is far greater now than it was in the era of Mo Farah's childhood. I have to wonder how the UK social construct can survive with the huge numbers of people entering given the lack of housing, water, food etc https://youtu.be/PAeRejE467g

If you’re legitimately worried about excessive immigration, you should be doing everything you can to fight climate change. Hundreds of millions of people could be displaced by environmental disasters like sea level rise, typhoon flooding, drought, and famine. If you don’t want a repeat of the emigration at the end of the Bronze Age, we need to do all we can to stop climate change.

[deleted]

Re: Sir Mo Farah reveals he was trafficked into the UK using another child’s name

#40

Post by lazyasciiart »

notch656a wrote: post #33
worik wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ut that is because they are illegal thus they get basically no benefits Evidence?

You don't understand that if society provides you no benefits, and you pay into taxes from otherwise (sans the fact you're an illegal immigrant) legitimate labor, it's almost impossible to be a net drain?

I'm not arguing that these factors are large enough to change the answer, but other ways someone can be a net drain include

a) being criminals who inflict various kinds of harm on others

b) working in jobs that would otherwise be taken by existing locals, who are now displaced onto benefits

c) working in jobs that would otherwise not be able to find employees, thus asserting downward pressure on wages/conditions

d) using those benefits which are available, such as (in the US) public schools, emergency departments, and sometimes state-specific benefits

e) using resources from a finite pool such as e.g land in a farming county, houses in a city that refuses to allow further development

Most of these arguments can be found when people are objecting to legal immigration

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