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U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

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Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#121

Post by rglullis »

acchow wrote: post #115
rglullis wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My uncle was a math teacher in Brazil - mostly test-prep course schools for university exams, later he opened some of his own private schools. He used to say two things: that he has estimated to have taught at least 100 thousand people in his life (seems just crazy boasting, but feasible when you are working in 5-8 different schools per semester and each class has 100-250 people) and that a teacher is always teaching…

> that a teacher is always teaching for the worst student in the class It's been my experience in college that most teachers just let the bottom quartile of the class fail (and likely switch into another major).

There is no "switching majors" in Brazil. You make the application for the major that you want, and you are competing against everyone that also applied to that course. If you decide to switch after starting a major, you almost certainly will be forced to drop out and re-apply.

But in reality, even that doesn't matter. In the best universities, your worst students will be better than the average students at the second-rate institutions. If the teacher is simply giving the class to the top 75 percentile, the class will be even better still at the top uni.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#122

Post by throwaway2037 »

ameliaquining wrote: post #61
saalweachter wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now the interesting question: did Northwestern^H^H^H^H^H^H^Heastern get meaningfully better for students between 1996 and 2013? Did they graduate in higher numbers? Did they have better career outcomes? Did more get into better(?) grad schools? What is their median income? Are they happier, did they enjoy college more?

Almost certainly yes, because the school could presumably attract a higher-quality applicant pool in 2013 than in 1996. This, of course, makes it impossible to tell how much of that value was produced by the university and how much was just selection effects.

From first hand experience, I can say that quality of selection makes a big difference in your university experience. My first university was /modestly/ selective. My second university was not-at-all selective. (I was a terrible university student.) The difference in class discussion and group projects cannot be understated. Students from the higher quality selection university were much more intellectually engaging.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#123

Post by unosama »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #18
hackyhacky wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your suspicion is correct. I've taught at several US universities, and it's an open secret that the administrative takes steps to manipulate numbers in order to secure better rankings. Typical example: a small, prestigious liberal arts college always has smaller class sizes in the fall semester than in the spring semester. Why? Because classes with less than 30 students are ranked higher by US News, but they only tak…

> Because classes with less than 30 students are ranked higher by US News, but they only take into consideration the fall semester. No one cares about class sizes in the spring. What a bizarre and totally unnecessary restriction.

You add a simple and reasonable (until it gets abused) assumption to your model which allows a lesser data collection burden on thousands of universities. I wouldn't call it a restriction.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#124

Post by throwaway2037 »

kaesar14 wrote: post #60
saalweachter wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now the interesting question: did Northwestern^H^H^H^H^H^H^Heastern get meaningfully better for students between 1996 and 2013? Did they graduate in higher numbers? Did they have better career outcomes? Did more get into better(?) grad schools? What is their median income? Are they happier, did they enjoy college more?

Was it that hard to read and get my alma mater right? ;) In my opinion as a student who entered Northeastern in the mid 2010's the answer to all your questions is an unequivocal yes. More competitive student body, better profile to attract employers, more student amenities to enhance on campus life (we could have more in this regard imho). Compared to the commuter school of yesteryear it's for sure a much better educ…

"better profile to attract employers" -- this is very important in the United States. If you are good student from a below average university, your job prospects are /much/ worse!

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#126

Post by corrral »

gnicholas wrote: post #110
rayiner wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For instance, any ranking that does not have Stanford first among non specialized US universities (i.e. excluding MIT, Caltech, Julliard, etc.) is suspect. LOL wut? Stanford is modestly well known, but obviously Harvard is the one that is unambiguously first.

I'd give Stanford a bit more credit than this, but people I know who were admitted to both all went to Harvard. Stanford is surely the most prestigious general-purpose university west of, well, Harvard.

> Stanford is surely the most prestigious general-purpose university west of, well, Harvard.

Is that no longer Yale? From the perspective of someone who had a rather poor exposure to universities during my high school years—so, precisely what someone gets from pop-culture and osmosis without anyone in particular acting as a guide—my impression was that Harvard and Yale were unambiguously the Big Two, and everything else fell somewhere after them in terms of recognition and prestige.

Is this a CS perspective? I hear a lot about Stanford's CS program so I assume it's notably good.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#127

Post by marincounty »

hardtke wrote: post #82
brianbreslin wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at a university, and honestly have never heard of this ranking that you referenced in [1]. Also seems super weighted towards military academies. What's their model? Are kids in the states now looking at more global options ?

The revealed preference rankings use co-admittance data (student got into Harvard and Stanford) along with that student's final choice (went to Stanford) to rank the schools. The military academies will have a huge edge because their decisions come out later and most students are highly committed once they continue their application to that point (they've gotten congressional recommendations, passed physical exams, e…

No post body was provided.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#128

Post by unosama »

labster wrote: post #14

One down, 99 to go. These university rankings are absurd, and just a status game that school administrators feel they are forced to play. Individual programs may be outstanding at otherwise middling colleges — it’s better to learn about specific departments than try to reduce the school as a whole to a number.

Universities are a status game in general. Reputation and networking opportunities matter more than education quality.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#129

Post by culi »

labster wrote: post #14

One down, 99 to go. These university rankings are absurd, and just a status game that school administrators feel they are forced to play. Individual programs may be outstanding at otherwise middling colleges — it’s better to learn about specific departments than try to reduce the school as a whole to a number.

One of the heaviest part of their grading is just the opinions of academics. They just send a survey out and ask academics to rank universities. Of course they end up reproducing and reinforcing the existing rankings as always.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#130

Post by sandstrom »

labster wrote: post #83
kupopuffs wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't there rankings for specific schools in schools? like Engineering, etc...

Sure, but excellence in computer engineering does not imply excellence in chemical engineering does not imply excellence in civil engineering.

But someone looking for a good chemical engineering school won't look in the computer science ranking table, no?
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