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U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

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Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#101
post #29

For context, U.S. News and World Report used to be a trusted periodical that reported national and international news. In the 80's they started ranking colleges and selling it as a separate publication, which turned out to be pretty profitable, so they repeated the trick by ranking hospitals (1990), cars (2007), and then states (2017). The news business went online only in 2011, then shuttered in 2015. Since then the…

Wow fascinating - so US News is now a rankings company.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#102

Per the article this came in response to questions raised by a Columbia faculty member critiquing the university's data. I thought that report[1] was actually more interesting than the original article. As per the quote at the top of the report: > Rankings create powerful incentives to manipulate data and distort institutional behavior for the sole or primary purpose of inflating one’s score... It would be shocking t…

I took an Econ class with northwestern’s president and he said that they straight up lie about their middle 50 gpa and standardized test scores. Can’t say I was super surprised. Every top 25 school is saying 25% of their students got a 35 or better on the ACT, the numbers just didn’t add up.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#103
post #66

Per the article this came in response to questions raised by a Columbia faculty member critiquing the university's data. I thought that report[1] was actually more interesting than the original article. As per the quote at the top of the report: > Rankings create powerful incentives to manipulate data and distort institutional behavior for the sole or primary purpose of inflating one’s score... It would be shocking t…

My kid just went through college selection process and I can assure you that the US News rankings are largely irrelevant in terms of decision making. The revealed preference score[1] or global university rankings[2] are much closer to how students, their counselors, and their parents rank the universities. For instance, any ranking that does not have Stanford first among non specialized US universities (i.e. excludin…

> For instance, any ranking that does not have Stanford first among non specialized US universities (i.e. excluding MIT, Caltech, Julliard, etc.) is suspect.

LOL wut? Stanford is modestly well known, but obviously Harvard is the one that is unambiguously first.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#104
post #8

Per the article this came in response to questions raised by a Columbia faculty member critiquing the university's data. I thought that report[1] was actually more interesting than the original article. As per the quote at the top of the report: > Rankings create powerful incentives to manipulate data and distort institutional behavior for the sole or primary purpose of inflating one’s score... It would be shocking t…

Which begs the question - if you want to get top in rankings wouldn't you simply design the school around the objective ranking parameters and nothing else? Ripe for abuse...

This is sort of what Columbia did… they juiced their faculty numbers by counting the med school which has much lower class sizes and more educated teachers.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#105
post #86

I really wonder why Columbia even cares: it's a globally well known ivy league school obviously producing a good education and is in NYC.* Doesn't US News need Columbia more than the other way around? * No I have no connection to the school except I do have some friends who teach there and some others who attended decades ago.

I think professors and the actual scholars there don't really care. However, administration cares because ranking is tied to both how many undergraduates students apply and how much they can charge these students. If college rankings didn't matter financially then I hazard that Columbia would've had questionable numbers to begin with.

That said I agree that being an Ivy in NYC certainly was a major contributor to its more recent rise in the rankings and applications.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#106

Per the article this came in response to questions raised by a Columbia faculty member critiquing the university's data. I thought that report[1] was actually more interesting than the original article. As per the quote at the top of the report: > Rankings create powerful incentives to manipulate data and distort institutional behavior for the sole or primary purpose of inflating one’s score... It would be shocking t…

I took an Econ class with northwestern’s president and he said that they straight up lie about their middle 50 gpa and standardized test scores. Can’t say I was super surprised. Every top 25 school is saying 25% of their students got a 35 or better on the ACT, the numbers just didn’t add up.

Morty? He was getting pretty chatty nearing retirement.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#107
post #66

Per the article this came in response to questions raised by a Columbia faculty member critiquing the university's data. I thought that report[1] was actually more interesting than the original article. As per the quote at the top of the report: > Rankings create powerful incentives to manipulate data and distort institutional behavior for the sole or primary purpose of inflating one’s score... It would be shocking t…

My kid just went through college selection process and I can assure you that the US News rankings are largely irrelevant in terms of decision making. The revealed preference score[1] or global university rankings[2] are much closer to how students, their counselors, and their parents rank the universities. For instance, any ranking that does not have Stanford first among non specialized US universities (i.e. excludin…

I find revealed preference to be very useful in many situations, but a ranking that has Harvard just below Swarthmore, at #61, does not pass the smell test. I say this as a graduate of Swarthmore — I cannot take seriously a list with Harvard so far down.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#108

The beginning of the conclusion of the original study [1] is worth repeating: No one should try to reform or rehabilitate the ranking. It is irredeemable. In Colin Diver’s memorable formulation, “Trying to rank institutions of higher education is a little like trying to rank religions or philosophies. The entire enterprise is flawed, not only in detail but also in conception.” Students are poorly served by rankings.…

I've been looking at the bias in rankings for a little while. I think one way to identify and raise awareness of the biases, is just put rankings together side-by-side. I did this for computer science programs, and there's some interesting differences that I noticed:

https://jeffhuang.com/computer-science-open-data/#bias-in-co...

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#109

US colleges foresee a future where they are under attack for being absurdly selective, what some are now calling being "highly rejective". I think they want to avoid being targeted by the fairness wonks anymore than they already are. Also, US News and World Report rankings have major problems, for instance, the ranking algorithm considers campus aesthetics and food quality, but doesn't account for price, giving schoo…

The gap between the schools' rhetoric and reality is pretty funny; I was just writing about it the other day: https://seliger.com/2022/07/06/nonprofit-boards-of-directors... : You can see a lot of hypocrisy that’s uncritically accepted by a lot of organizations, including nonprofits. Exclusionary higher education is a particular notable example, given the soaring rhetoric of “inclusion” spouted by some people involve…

It's truly mind-boggling. The Ivies were always bastions for maintaining the position of WASP elites. They still serve that function. Maybe there is a bit more wiggle room about skin color, but they still function to socialize the next generation of people to run WASP institutions like "JP Morgan Chase."

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#110
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kid just went through college selection process and I can assure you that the US News rankings are largely irrelevant in terms of decision making. The revealed preference score[1] or global university rankings[2] are much closer to how students, their counselors, and their parents rank the universities. For instance, any ranking that does not have Stanford first among non specialized US universities (i.e. excludin…

> For instance, any ranking that does not have Stanford first among non specialized US universities (i.e. excluding MIT, Caltech, Julliard, etc.) is suspect. LOL wut? Stanford is modestly well known, but obviously Harvard is the one that is unambiguously first.

I'd give Stanford a bit more credit than this, but people I know who were admitted to both all went to Harvard. Stanford is surely the most prestigious general-purpose university west of, well, Harvard.
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