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The world needs a non-profit search engine

daoudclarke.net

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Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#341

Post by jeffbee »

O__________O wrote: post #201

Worth noting attempts at non-profit search engines are not new. In 2015, Wikimedia Foundation attempted to start one called the “Knowledge Engine” using at least $250,000 from a grant. Wikipedia likely started the project as a response to Google’s use of “knowledge panels” based on Wikipedia Creative Commons license alongside search results in 2012, which reduced traffic to Wikipedia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

I don't think this accurately represents Wikipedia's relationship with Google. Wikipedia is thrilled with the knowledge panels. It has dramatically cut Wikipedia's hosting costs and spread its reach. You're making it sound like Wikimedia and Google were antagonists over the knowledge panels, but as I understand things it was the opposite.

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#342

Post by blep_ »

kebman wrote: post #167

It's perhaps a bit on the side but still part of the topic of search. Have you noticed how newspapers systematically do not supply a clear source for their articles? It's especially prevalent on political cases where there are easy-to-link paper trails. This makes it a lot harder to find the source for their article, so you end up just taking their word for their angle on the story. A great recent example is Biden's…

I haven't noticed any particular bias on Wikipedia, but I acknowledge that could be because it aligns with my own biases. Can you point out an example or two?

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#343

Post by oidar »

I get an incredible value from search engines. Google even (their shopping and book search features are very helpful). But right now, I am liking paid search as the way forward. Kagi is doing pretty good things right now. I love how I can up the weight of certain domains so that their results come in at the top without having to add site:awesomesite.com at the end of every search string. In fact, I can have 20 sites that I trust a lot that show up pinned at the top of the search for every query. It's 10 bucks a month, but I find it valuable.

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#344

Post by techdragon »

freediver wrote: post #338
javajosh wrote: post #249

>Google makes $40bn...If I can create something that just a tiny fraction of people find useful, then I can create a huge amount of value. You conflate two meanings of value: monetary value, and intrinsic value. Search engines are intrinsically but not monetarily valuable to users. Search engines are monetarily, but not intrinsically, valuable to advertisers. You can get into trouble when you conflate these two meani…

> Search engines are intrinsically but not monetarily valuable to users. Search engines are monetarily, but not intrinsically, valuable to advertisers. I”d like to offer a different view, one that thousands of subscribers at Kagi search can hopefully stand behind too. (Kagi founder here) Searching has a monetary value and a cost, the only question is whether the user is paying for it or a third party is paying for th…

As someone who has been architecting a paid “deep search” tool for a couple of years now ( my approach is trying to enable very deep search flexibility, like you can grip files on your hard drive, but balancing that against usability at internet scale is very hard ) I have been on board with the idea the “search is valuable enough to end users that they will pay” for awhile. The issue isn’t value, it’s marketing it successfully enough to gather users at a rate that covers costs. I haven’t launched my project even in private alpha to anyone because it still costs too much per search, for other search engines it will cost less and hopefully we get a healthy ecosystem of search tools eventually.

Based on what I’m seeing in google search quality… their days of unquestioned dominance died a few years ago. The king is dead, the prince (bing) is on vacation somewhere, and the crown is up for grabs.

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#345

Post by mistrial9 »

freediver wrote: post #338
javajosh wrote: post #249

>Google makes $40bn...If I can create something that just a tiny fraction of people find useful, then I can create a huge amount of value. You conflate two meanings of value: monetary value, and intrinsic value. Search engines are intrinsically but not monetarily valuable to users. Search engines are monetarily, but not intrinsically, valuable to advertisers. You can get into trouble when you conflate these two meani…

> Search engines are intrinsically but not monetarily valuable to users. Search engines are monetarily, but not intrinsically, valuable to advertisers. I”d like to offer a different view, one that thousands of subscribers at Kagi search can hopefully stand behind too. (Kagi founder here) Searching has a monetary value and a cost, the only question is whether the user is paying for it or a third party is paying for th…

How is 'kagi' related to CEO Kee Nethery ?

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#347

Post by javajosh »

ItsMonkk wrote: post #339
javajosh wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There exist grant programs at most institutions designed to support such work and precisely for that reason. Sadly, writing grant applications are a job in-and-of-themselves. Consider the case of Justine Tunney, the creator of redbean. If anyone deserves a grant or three, it's her. But she's too busy making cool shit to a) research which grants are available, and b) satisfy their onerous application requirements. Obv…

Yep, you have outlined the problems with grants. As they look forward, and due so in a one-time lump sum, they hold considerable risk, and thus the providers of the grant money need to ensure they pick correctly, but this just leaves us with a centrally controlled economy and bureaucratic nightmare. Instead, you should seek to discover the intrinsic value as it is occurring, and therefore no risk to the granters. I b…

> a modified Vickrey auction

So, fund people based on github stars. I could think of worse solutions, honestly!

Oh, something else I remembered: Princeton's Institute for Advanced Study! This is an interesting idea. Basically they tell a scientist "You've changed human history, the least we can do is give you an income for the rest of your life that has no strings attached. You can teach, or not, research, or not." It would be cool if each of FAANG had one, or they pooled together to make one, or had a virtual distributed version. "Dear Fabrice Bellard, we will be depositing 10k euros a month into your account until you die. Yours, Google."

Re: The world needs a non-profit search engine

#349

Post by Terry_Roll »

larsrc wrote: post #155

Disclaimer: I work for Google, though far away from Search. Regardless of search engine design, there's HUGE money in SEO. Any successful search engine will be gamed. Do you have the developer power to go red-queen against all the large companies in the world?

Because of the filter bubble highlighted by Eli Pariser, there is massive opportunities for SEO companies to trick their customers into thinking they have got high up in the SE results, when all they are seeing is their filter bubble!

https://www.ted.com/talks/eli_pariser_beware_online_filter_b...

The last link someone clicks on, is usually the right link to associate with the search term for future users. Its not hard to make a search engine!

I'm not a Robot!

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