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The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

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Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#321

Post by eloff »

Larrikin wrote: post #25
tkgally wrote: post #5

The linked article ends with this: “Why the Japanese media has refused to identify the ‘religious group’ that formed the motive for the killing must remain as speculation at this juncture, though it reflects very poorly on Japan’s status as a democratic nation.” It’s important to note that the Japanese media is not monolithic. It’s true that the major newspapers (Asahi, Yomiuri, Mainichi, Nikkei, etc.) and the broadc…

It was explained to me when I lived in Japan, that while there are many Japanese media companies that exist independently in Japan, they all have to go to one central government body to renew their licenses to exist. They get some leeway but it's it's not much

Canada wants to implement this under the Trudeau liberal government. It's been a little disturbing to watch a Canadian liberal government take steps in the direction of totalitarian control since the beginning of the pandemic. When was the last time the political right has positioned themselves in opposition to the left in defense of free speech and individual rights and freedoms? Strange times.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#322

Post by rramadass »

Jensson wrote: post #166
rramadass wrote: post #157

I don't completely buy the "religious group" reason given by the assassin. It might just be a convenient cover story for any "State Actors" behind the assassination. Shinzo Abe had been a real thorn in the side of China and North Korea by pushing a hard-line approach towards them. He had tremendous worldwide political/economic clout and was instrumental in establishing the "Pacific Quad" as a real challenge to China…

How would China or North Korea convince a Japanese soldier to openly kill his leader and face death penalty? There is very little social exchange between these countries, extremely few foreigners speaks Japanese, I just don't see how they could indoctrinate him to such a degree that he would give up his own life for that cause. Extremely few people give up their life for a cause even when they grew up in that society…

This is Spycraft 101;

Lots of Japanese have been abducted by North Korea to train their spies, build cover stories to live as Japanese (i.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeper_agent) across generations etc. Since NK is a proxy for China, one can expect a flow through. See - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Jap...

In popular Movie/TV parlance (eg. Russian spies in the USA) these Sleeper Agents are called "The Illegals".

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#323

Post by radford-neal »

giantg2 wrote: post #250
yucky wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>After all, we know that this will save lives. There are lots of things that we know will save lives. Banning driving of all non-emergency vehicles. Banning vices and handing out 50 year prison sentences for any violation. Banning skydiving. Banning soda. We can make a very long list of things we can do to save lives. But there is a price to pay, and that price isn't worth it. Banning free speech and the free flow of…

I agree that there are many things that we could do, and that there are costs associated with them. "Banning free speech and the free flow of information is not a price worth paying." I generally agree with this, but what harm is done by banning the media from using the name of a criminal likely to be notorious (mass murder, assassination, etc)?

Well, for starters, it would mean that members of the public who had interacted with the murderer, and had important information about their motives, means of obtaining weapons, accomplices, etc. would not realize that they had important information, and therefore would not make this information available to investigators.

Next, it would mean that powerful interests who had responsibility for the crime, by instigation or negligence, might be able to avoid accountability for their actions/omissions, since people would not be able to connect them to the murderer.

Then there's the inability of the public to see what aspects of current culture might have lead to the crime, or what deficiencies in mental health care contributed, etc.

Democracy is based on the belief that ordinary people can be trusted to know the truth, and use it in governing themselves. Perhaps you don't believe that, and are just against democracy?

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#324

Post by chmod600 »

giantg2 wrote: post #297
chmod600 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There are already restrictions on speech..." There are particular categories of speech that aren't considered to be "protected speech". And those categories can't be expanded just because some politicians and judges think it's a good idea. "that same reasoning is what allows gun control." A lot of what we consider "gun control" is under active constitutional debate. Why go to all this trouble? I agree with the gener…

"And those categories can't be expanded just because some politicians and judges think it's a good idea." Why not? Isn't that how the current ones came to be? "But all we have to do is stop clicking and start to develop a cultural idea that it's wrong to report is a way that makes killers (in)famous." That would be great, but what would that look like? I don't see a mechanism for incentizing them via culture. The onl…

"Why not? Isn't that how the current ones came to be?"

There's an interesting history of rights prior to the Constitution. But now that we have a constitution, there's a defined process for amending it.

Of course, there is still room for interpretation. But if you allow politicians and judges to wildly change the constitution on a whim, you might as well not have one.

What you are suggesting qualifies as such a wild change to the notion of a free press, and should not be permitted without an amendment. And if such an amendment were proposed, I think it would get very little support.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#325

Post by eloff »

im3w1l wrote: post #295
alisonatwork wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politicians don't really need to be good at policy. They have people to do that. They just need to be charismatic - able to capture the imagination of a constituency, and able to persuade other politicians to support their platform. Of course it'd be nice if our politicians were well-educated in the details of the policies they are championing, and if they could independently reason about the pros and cons, but reali…

Politicians need to pick skilled policymakers. This can be done either by being good at policy themselves so that they can identify this skill in others, or by having above average people skills so they can identify it that way.

Trudeau's policy picks were to check boxes on unwritten gender and race quotas. They are unlikely to have been the best people for the positions, because that wasn't the criteria being applied. Some people might take umbrage at me calling it out like that, but it sure looks like that's what actually happened. It was affirmative action to score political points.

I don't like or agree with affirmative action as a policy. It's slapping a bandaid on the problem without addressing root causes. It's demeaning to the people selected, and it's discrimination on constitutionally protected grounds of gender, race, sexual identity, etc.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#326

Post by throwaway5752 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #189
dav_Oz wrote: post #165

As an incidental remark: I find it remarkable that on the surface I now know of three G7 countries / liberal democracies where the PM/President is the (grand)son of a PM/President himself. Bush Sr - Bush Jr Pierre Trudeau - Justin Trudeau Nobusuke Kishi - (Shintaro Abe; FM) - Shinzo Abe [Honorary mention: France with "Le Pen" both father & daughter made it to the second round in the presidential elections (2002; 2017…

It's a disturbing trend and indicative of failing health / vibrancy of political systems. Same with running Hilary Clinton. Half of the entire point of the democratic turn in western states after the enlightenment and the French revolution was to attempt take power away from powerful families and abolish heritable power. I found it very alarming when Trudeau Jr was plucked out of relative obscurity and turned into a…

I disagree regarding Hillary Clinton, I think it's a disservice to her academic and professional accomplishments. She has an impressive academic record at Yale while getting her JD, was a very popular senator in NY, and was widely respected SoS. She is far more qualified than most presidential candidates and probably more qualified than her husband. I know she is divisive and I'm going to be downvoted, but all those accomplishments are factual and I left things out. I wish people would pause and reflect about why they dislike her.

I also disagree with you about Trudeau, almost to the point I would characterize your description of him as false. He started in the HoC 15 years ago, took that to a leadership position in a failing Liberal party and revitalized them. I think it's more problematic that Harper led a lobbying group for several years.. I am curious what you think has been disastrous? (never mind, I see your sibling comment) I think he is actually impressively aware of the political coordination with the American and Canadian right-wings.

If I'm understanding you right, it's more of a problem with machine politics, and I'd agree with you. The solution has always been restrictions on donations, advertising, and otherwise limiting the influence of money on politics but that fight has mostly failed.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#327

Post by Jensson »

im3w1l wrote: post #295
alisonatwork wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politicians don't really need to be good at policy. They have people to do that. They just need to be charismatic - able to capture the imagination of a constituency, and able to persuade other politicians to support their platform. Of course it'd be nice if our politicians were well-educated in the details of the policies they are championing, and if they could independently reason about the pros and cons, but reali…

Politicians need to pick skilled policymakers. This can be done either by being good at policy themselves so that they can identify this skill in others, or by having above average people skills so they can identify it that way.

People tend to value skills they themselves possess. If you have a leader with good technical skills then he will probably pick people with good technical skills. So socially competent leaders look for socially competent underlings, leaders who got there via nepotism probably applies nepotism as well when choosing etc.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#328

Post by bigbillheck »

wronglyprepaid wrote: post #226
headsoup wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Biden historical already? 'actual good,' is that like the no true Scotsman of good?

The Biden-Harris economic strategy is producing historic results: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases... Also he is the first president with a female black LGBTQI+ press secretary, He also appointed the first female four star admiral and nominated the first black female supreme court justice. He also has a historically strong mandate as more people voted for him than any other presidential ca…

I was thinking you were laying it on a bit thick and then I saw the kinds of responses you've been getting.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#329

Post by freeopinion »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #189
dav_Oz wrote: post #165

As an incidental remark: I find it remarkable that on the surface I now know of three G7 countries / liberal democracies where the PM/President is the (grand)son of a PM/President himself. Bush Sr - Bush Jr Pierre Trudeau - Justin Trudeau Nobusuke Kishi - (Shintaro Abe; FM) - Shinzo Abe [Honorary mention: France with "Le Pen" both father & daughter made it to the second round in the presidential elections (2002; 2017…

It's a disturbing trend and indicative of failing health / vibrancy of political systems. Same with running Hilary Clinton. Half of the entire point of the democratic turn in western states after the enlightenment and the French revolution was to attempt take power away from powerful families and abolish heritable power. I found it very alarming when Trudeau Jr was plucked out of relative obscurity and turned into a…

> It's a disturbing trend and indicative of failing health / vibrancy of political systems.

If this is an indicator, how long has the U.S. political system been failing? John Adams was the second President starting in 1797. His son became the sixth President in 1825.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#330

Post by ksaj »

15155 wrote: post #176
giantg2 wrote: post #104

"Why the Japanese media has refused to identify the “religious group” that formed the motive for the killing must remain as speculation at this juncture, though it reflects very poorly on Japan’s status as a democratic nation." Because they aren't stupid. When you name names and provide ample details you have given the killer things that encourage others - infamy, a platform to spread their message, etc. In the US, w…

Pen the statue for us, what would one look like that would stop this type of release of names?

Especially on a global scale. No law in the US or other non-Japanese country regarding the press is going to have bearing on Japanese laws regarding Japan's media outlets.
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