The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe • Hacker News Board

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#291

Post by chmod600 » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 3:31 PM UTC

asveikau wrote: post #52

mellosouls wrote: post #48

Why the Japanese media has refused to identify the ‘religious group’ that formed the motive for the killing must remain as speculation at this juncture, though it reflects very poorly on Japan’s status as a democratic nation. It is quite striking in the UK and US how mainstream media will be remarkably coy about identifying the cultural background of some criminals while straight off the bat into condemnatory opinion…

Quoted post unavailable.

The comment could also be read to mean that race is irrelevant to the crimes and shouldn't usually be reported.

As it stands, the media is a bit selective in reporting the race of suspects, to the point of misinforming readers.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#292

Post by pessimizer » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 3:31 PM UTC

nverno wrote: post #51

guerrilla wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same in every country, including the US where entire agencies will just stop talking to you if you piss them off (especially police departments.) It's one of the ways we get all this propaganda even though we have a nominally "free" press.

It's not "the same" at all. It's a matter of degrees, which make a huge difference.

With police departments, it might be worse. Imagine any local news outlet frozen out of police communications. The choice is to cease to exist, or to fire or demote the person that the cops want fired or demoted. If you live in the US, the reason you've seen 900 videos of cops dancing with children, opening fire hydrants, and handing out toys (on every network news show on the same day) is because they're press released by the cops, and there will be retaliation if the videos don't get on the air.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#293

Post by s1artibartfast » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 3:32 PM UTC

mlyle wrote: post #253

donatj wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> think twice before giving them money because you'd be supporting the late George Bush Sr's 2nd-favorite cult. > They also own The Washington Times and United Press International (UPI). > And True World Foods, which runs a major portion of the sushi trade in the US. > Numerous other innocent-sounding organizations in many, many sports, interest groups, and industries. Like if someone wrote any of that about Jews, th…

I think one can be particularly legitimately concerned about religions that: * directly accumulate controlling ownership interests in key businesses. * use dubious fundraising and recruitment practices. * form complex webs of not-obviously-related entities to use in influence operations. * have acted as a pseudo-cult of personality of a figure in living memory. * are possibly abusive to their members in various ways.

Doesn't that cover most organized religions?

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#294

Post by Brendinooo » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

confidantlake wrote: post #214

Brendinooo wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, and I’d imagine politics is like anything else: you would really benefit from having people who’ve been there before to help you navigate. It’s the same reason why a lot of children of pro athletes become pro athletes.

I imagine that genetics is probably the biggest reason for athletes.

It’s an important reason, but being connected enough to get noticed and getting the right instruction to succeed are also major pieces of the puzzle.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/articles/left-out

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#295

Post by im3w1l » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

alisonatwork wrote: post #268

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a disturbing trend and indicative of failing health / vibrancy of political systems. Same with running Hilary Clinton. Half of the entire point of the democratic turn in western states after the enlightenment and the French revolution was to attempt take power away from powerful families and abolish heritable power. I found it very alarming when Trudeau Jr was plucked out of relative obscurity and turned into a…

Politicians don't really need to be good at policy. They have people to do that. They just need to be charismatic - able to capture the imagination of a constituency, and able to persuade other politicians to support their platform. Of course it'd be nice if our politicians were well-educated in the details of the policies they are championing, and if they could independently reason about the pros and cons, but reali…

Politicians need to pick skilled policymakers. This can be done either by being good at policy themselves so that they can identify this skill in others, or by having above average people skills so they can identify it that way.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#296

Post by wronglyprepaid » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

mkr-hn wrote: post #289

wronglyprepaid wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how what you cites implies the media was fawning over Trump, if I recall correctly the coverage was not exactly positive, and I explicitly mentioned singing the praises of, not just reporting.

That was going off of memory. I might be wrong about that part.

Here is an NPR article which shows that media coverage for Trump was less positive and more negative than for the 3 preceding presidents: https://www.npr.org/2017/10/02/555092743/study-news-coverage...

And you can trust them because they rightly recognize Biden as a historical president: https://www.npr.org/sections/president-biden-takes-office/20...

No matter how much you try and disparage the US press, for the most part the mainstream press are warriors for democracy and one of the reasons why US has such a healthy and vibrant democracy.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#297

Post by giantg2 » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

chmod600 wrote: post #271

giantg2 wrote: post #104

"Why the Japanese media has refused to identify the “religious group” that formed the motive for the killing must remain as speculation at this juncture, though it reflects very poorly on Japan’s status as a democratic nation." Because they aren't stupid. When you name names and provide ample details you have given the killer things that encourage others - infamy, a platform to spread their message, etc. In the US, w…

"There are already restrictions on speech..." There are particular categories of speech that aren't considered to be "protected speech". And those categories can't be expanded just because some politicians and judges think it's a good idea. "that same reasoning is what allows gun control." A lot of what we consider "gun control" is under active constitutional debate. Why go to all this trouble? I agree with the gener…

"And those categories can't be expanded just because some politicians and judges think it's a good idea."

Why not? Isn't that how the current ones came to be?

"But all we have to do is stop clicking and start to develop a cultural idea that it's wrong to report is a way that makes killers (in)famous."

That would be great, but what would that look like? I don't see a mechanism for incentizing them via culture. The only thing I can see is if people start sueing the media like they have gun makers for improper marketing.

"A lot of what we consider "gun control" is under active constitutional debate."

Is it really a lot? It seems the majority of gun control regulations still stand under the new one prong standard.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#298

Post by School-Cotton » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 3:39 PM UTC

stevenjgarner wrote: post #207

dav_Oz wrote: post #165

As an incidental remark: I find it remarkable that on the surface I now know of three G7 countries / liberal democracies where the PM/President is the (grand)son of a PM/President himself. Bush Sr - Bush Jr Pierre Trudeau - Justin Trudeau Nobusuke Kishi - (Shintaro Abe; FM) - Shinzo Abe [Honorary mention: France with "Le Pen" both father & daughter made it to the second round in the presidential elections (2002; 2017…

Not a G7, but India notably is the most populous democracy in the world: Rajiv Gandhi, 6th Prime Minister of India, son of Indira Gandhi who was 3rd Prime Minister of India, who herself was daughter of Jawaharlal Nehru, the 1st prime minister of India.

Rajiv Gandhi’s wife Sonia and son Rahul are also major political figures in India.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#299

Post by noobermin » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

hsn915 wrote: post #16

tkgally wrote: post #5

The linked article ends with this: “Why the Japanese media has refused to identify the ‘religious group’ that formed the motive for the killing must remain as speculation at this juncture, though it reflects very poorly on Japan’s status as a democratic nation.” It’s important to note that the Japanese media is not monolithic. It’s true that the major newspapers (Asahi, Yomiuri, Mainichi, Nikkei, etc.) and the broadc…

It's not really any different than the US. Lots of information tends to be "widely known" online to those who care to dig, but the mainstream outlets stick to some narrative that is best described as "half truth".

Case in point, the death of Epstein.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#300

Post by kevinmchugh » Sun, Jul 10, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

donatj wrote: post #216

owlninja wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article is specifically about Moonies though. I've also heard first hand accounts of that exact situation happening in the town where I went to college many years ago.

I’m not saying anything about the content of the article, the article is fine. I am remarking on the commenters bigoted tone, and how people let it slide because it’s a religion they are unfamiliar with.

I think people feel more confident making generalizations about novel religious groups, even relatively large ones. And maybe especially novel religious groups with centralized control. Unification Church is basically the same age as Scientology.