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Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

vox.com

31–40 of 110 posts

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#31
I really want to like Vox's video format but just can't. Which is a shame because they have lots of topics that are quite interesting.

I can't pin down which part that I hate most, the "stylish" presentation with random SFX and virtual pen circling around, or the fact they always insert some super low quality video conference footage instead of just letting the narrator paraphrasing (I get it they're the domain experts, but still..).

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jounce, crackle and pop for the 4th, 5th and sixth derivatives

It feels wrong to me that pop comes after crackle. Crackle seems like the ultimate high-frequency effect. In fact, "pop" seems like it should come before "snap". But I guess it is somewhat arbitrary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap,_Crackle_and_Pop

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#33
post #18

If I remember my uni engineering/calculus maths class correctly, the third derivative of position is used in planning these sort of curves. The first derivative of postion (with respect to time) is velocity. The second derivative is acceleration (ie rate of change of velocity). And the third derivative is jerk (rate of change of acceleration). And 'jerk' has to be kept below a certain threshold for humans to find mov…

And 'jerk' has to be kept below a certain threshold for humans to find movement comfortable.

It's not strictly a matter of threshold -- people might tolerate a higher jerk if it's for a much shorter duration, for example. In practice it doesn't much matter which metric you minimize; you'll end up with similar results. The simplest option is to minimize the mean absolute jerk, which has the side benefit of utterly confusing any non-physics-literate people listening in. (You want to do what to whom?)

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#34
post #20
post #18

If I remember my uni engineering/calculus maths class correctly, the third derivative of position is used in planning these sort of curves. The first derivative of postion (with respect to time) is velocity. The second derivative is acceleration (ie rate of change of velocity). And the third derivative is jerk (rate of change of acceleration). And 'jerk' has to be kept below a certain threshold for humans to find mov…

I have a t-shirt which has "don't be a" and the equation for the third derivative

Reminds me of someone I knew at university whose T-shirt was the definite integral from 10 to 13 of 2x dx followed by a question mark.

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#35
Thus is similar to corners in roads not working well when they're circular arcs. Going from straight to circular arc means your steering wheel needs to jump instantly from one fixed position to another. Using something like a linear change in curvature (i.e. a clothoid curve) is much smoother. This kind of thinking applies to other areas too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_spiral

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#36
post #35

Thus is similar to corners in roads not working well when they're circular arcs. Going from straight to circular arc means your steering wheel needs to jump instantly from one fixed position to another. Using something like a linear change in curvature (i.e. a clothoid curve) is much smoother. This kind of thinking applies to other areas too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_spiral

for exactly the same reasons the corners of apple products aren't just an arc. They change the tangent smoothly over time.

Curiously Dubins paths do have instantaneous steering changes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubins_path

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#37
post #22
post #18

If I remember my uni engineering/calculus maths class correctly, the third derivative of position is used in planning these sort of curves. The first derivative of postion (with respect to time) is velocity. The second derivative is acceleration (ie rate of change of velocity). And the third derivative is jerk (rate of change of acceleration). And 'jerk' has to be kept below a certain threshold for humans to find mov…

Also seen in the planning of curves in roads (where jerk corresponds to the rate at which a steering wheel must be turned) and railways. And this is also why the passengers jerk of a vehicle jerk backwards after it comes to a complete stop. Their muscles statically counter the relative forwards acceleration of their torsos during braking and require time to react to the acceleration suddenly going away. This effect c…

This effect can be prevented by gradually letting off the brake before reapplying it fully upon stopping, but few drivers and rapid transit systems are aware.

This is surprising to read. Everyone whose car I've ridden in knows to do that, and it's only in extremely urgent and unexpected stops where it's neglected. Also, when fully stopped, only minimal pressure should be necessary to keep the car still.

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#38
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a t-shirt which has "don't be a" and the equation for the third derivative

Better than my schwarzchild radius nerd shirt!

I saw a shirt the other day that said there’s no place like G28 0 0 0. I think for now that wins my nerdshirt championship (I still like my “velociraptor = distraptor / timeraptor” short though, even if it fails dimensional analysis. =)

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#39
post #8

Note that the narrow-loop shape in modern roller-coasters means that the tightest curve is at the top, where the G-forces are partially countered by gravity. That's an 1-G that they can subtract, and it means the radius can be significantly larger on entry to the loop, resulting in smaller G-forces.

Also by the time you get to the apex it’s going slower than when it entered the loop.

I’m having trouble imagining a scenario where this is not the case.
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