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Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

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Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#11

Post by akira2501 »

jollybean wrote: post #9
jorgesborges wrote: post #3

> More people paid to watch others ride these early coasters rather than ride themselves I had no idea roller coasters have been around this long. The photos are laugh-out-loud terrifying. I was shocked that anyone would pay to ride them until I read the quote above. Now it makes sense. I’d pay to watch that too!

In that era, there weren't even seatbelts on cars. We used to have a much different view on systematic rare danger.

If you're trading a horse for the car, a seatbelt might not be the first thing you'd think of. I don't think our views on danger have changed, it's just that any new technology requires a period of adjustment to it.

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#13

Post by jollybean »

akira2501 wrote: post #11
jollybean wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that era, there weren't even seatbelts on cars. We used to have a much different view on systematic rare danger.

If you're trading a horse for the car, a seatbelt might not be the first thing you'd think of. I don't think our views on danger have changed, it's just that any new technology requires a period of adjustment to it.

Our views have changed. We used to throw lawn darts, have fireworks, guns all over. Not even helmets on motorcycles.

When I was a kid, we used to rid maybe 6 kids in the back of a pickup truck flat bed.

That was normal. It would not only be illegal today, but probably considered very immoral.

Hockey players didn't even wear helmets, not even the goalies (!).

Nobody wore helmets when I grew up skiing, now almost everyone does.

We are considerably safer about everything today.

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#14

Post by space_fountain »

jollybean wrote: post #13
akira2501 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're trading a horse for the car, a seatbelt might not be the first thing you'd think of. I don't think our views on danger have changed, it's just that any new technology requires a period of adjustment to it.

Our views have changed. We used to throw lawn darts, have fireworks, guns all over. Not even helmets on motorcycles. When I was a kid, we used to rid maybe 6 kids in the back of a pickup truck flat bed. That was normal . It would not only be illegal today, but probably considered very immoral. Hockey players didn't even wear helmets, not even the goalies (!). Nobody wore helmets when I grew up skiing, now almost ever…

Idk how old you are, but I have ridden on public roads in the back of a pickup certainly as late as the 2005 as a child. I think it might be more common than you think in some parts of the country

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#15

Post by bawolff »

jollybean wrote: post #13
akira2501 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're trading a horse for the car, a seatbelt might not be the first thing you'd think of. I don't think our views on danger have changed, it's just that any new technology requires a period of adjustment to it.

Our views have changed. We used to throw lawn darts, have fireworks, guns all over. Not even helmets on motorcycles. When I was a kid, we used to rid maybe 6 kids in the back of a pickup truck flat bed. That was normal . It would not only be illegal today, but probably considered very immoral. Hockey players didn't even wear helmets, not even the goalies (!). Nobody wore helmets when I grew up skiing, now almost ever…

We also used to knock on wood to prevent bad things happening. I think an argument could be made that we shifted from interventions that dont work to interventions that do.

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#16

Post by CSMastermind »

space_fountain wrote: post #14
jollybean wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our views have changed. We used to throw lawn darts, have fireworks, guns all over. Not even helmets on motorcycles. When I was a kid, we used to rid maybe 6 kids in the back of a pickup truck flat bed. That was normal . It would not only be illegal today, but probably considered very immoral. Hockey players didn't even wear helmets, not even the goalies (!). Nobody wore helmets when I grew up skiing, now almost ever…

Idk how old you are, but I have ridden on public roads in the back of a pickup certainly as late as the 2005 as a child. I think it might be more common than you think in some parts of the country

That's still going on today in many parts of the country, I literally saw a truck driving down the road with kids in the back last week.

Likewise, I've never once worn a seatbelt in an NYC taxi.

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#17

Post by jollybean »

bawolff wrote: post #15
jollybean wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our views have changed. We used to throw lawn darts, have fireworks, guns all over. Not even helmets on motorcycles. When I was a kid, we used to rid maybe 6 kids in the back of a pickup truck flat bed. That was normal . It would not only be illegal today, but probably considered very immoral. Hockey players didn't even wear helmets, not even the goalies (!). Nobody wore helmets when I grew up skiing, now almost ever…

We also used to knock on wood to prevent bad things happening. I think an argument could be made that we shifted from interventions that dont work to interventions that do.

We still knock wood.

We have more science, more education. 10% of kids under age 1 would die at the turn of the century (1900), which means, everyone knew a family with a child that had died, and that's traumatic.

Our views of safety and risk have evolved.

My grandfather, he worked in a lumber camp, the stories ... my god.

We also react to it differently now. Even in our language i.e. 'I feel unsafe' or people talk about 'harm' or 'violence' with just language.

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#18

Post by tobtoh »

If I remember my uni engineering/calculus maths class correctly, the third derivative of position is used in planning these sort of curves.

The first derivative of postion (with respect to time) is velocity. The second derivative is acceleration (ie rate of change of velocity). And the third derivative is jerk (rate of change of acceleration).

And 'jerk' has to be kept below a certain threshold for humans to find movement comfortable.

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#19

Post by mgdlbp »

jorgesborges wrote: post #3

> More people paid to watch others ride these early coasters rather than ride themselves I had no idea roller coasters have been around this long. The photos are laugh-out-loud terrifying. I was shocked that anyone would pay to ride them until I read the quote above. Now it makes sense. I’d pay to watch that too!

Having first read your comment, the photo wasn't as bad as I expected. The supports don't look too unreasonable for a single wooden car with two passengers. Modern trains are an order of magnitude heavier--~20 people and a gross weight of ~20 tonnes.

A video of the coaster in the photo exists (the playback framerate seems somewhat too fast): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flip_Flap_Railway_ea...

Modern tubular steel rails also allow for rickety-looking yet safe single-car coasters: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rat%C3%B3n_Vacil%C3%...

Re: Why roller coaster loops aren’t circular anymore

#20

Post by keithnz »

tobtoh wrote: post #18

If I remember my uni engineering/calculus maths class correctly, the third derivative of position is used in planning these sort of curves. The first derivative of postion (with respect to time) is velocity. The second derivative is acceleration (ie rate of change of velocity). And the third derivative is jerk (rate of change of acceleration). And 'jerk' has to be kept below a certain threshold for humans to find mov…

I have a t-shirt which has "don't be a" and the equation for the third derivative
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