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Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

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Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#131

Post by mythrwy »

phs318u wrote: post #125
mythrwy wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, but when I'm dead I won't be there, so what people say isn't that relevant. However, if I don't put in the hours now, I might get to enjoy life less because I'll have less resources to do so. (Within reason of course, life really does come first. But work is still important). People have odd ideas about their amazing historical impact. The way people will remember them, being "on the right side of histo…

I think you've missed my point. It's not about what they say. What they say is a reflection of the impact you've had on their lives. It isn't about leaving behind a legacy of "historical impact". The exercise is meant to cause you to reflect on what behaviours, what actions are likely to leave such positive impacts on others that they feel that way. Focusing solely on material success is unlikely to result in that ki…

I believe I appreciate your point.

But, you appear to be making the assumption that the impacts one leaves are the defining features of ones life. It's certainly a valid point of view, but not sure I fully subscribe to it.

Additionally, I doubt my ability to recognize, in sum if an impact is ultimately for good or ill.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#132

Post by eurasiantiger »

toombowoombo wrote: post #68
eurasiantiger wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”Dammit, Jack, we got another one.” ”Another awakening?” ”Yeah.” ”Just do what we always do, make their argument look nihilist or absurdist. Remember to avoid mentioning capitalism and neoconservatism!”

Is this a part of a bigger story or a made-up dialogue created specifically for this post?

The latter, but I’m now seriously considering a career in writing. ;)

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#133

Post by burrows »

phs318u wrote: post #130
burrows wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's about reflecting on what it takes to be a good person I don’t think invoking the usually incoherently used word “good” is very helpful.

If "good" is too hard to define, maybe "asshole" is less so? In which case, be the opposite of an asshole.

> In which case, be the opposite of an asshole.

Why?

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#135

Post by NateEag »

burrows wrote: post #118
NateEag wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is. [Spirituality] doesn't exist. The majority of people on the planet claim to practice some religion / have some spiritual practice. I think that means spirituality exists, as it's practiced to at least some extent by billions of people every day. Do you mean the supernatural doesn't exist? I'd readily grant that most (maybe all?) supernatural claims cannot be falsified, but that doesn't prove they're false. I…

> I'd readily grant that most (maybe all?) supernatural claims cannot be falsified, but that doesn't prove they're false. What is the meaning of a claim whose truth has no impact on my sense experience?

For many, many people, their sense experience has included some interactions with what they perceive to be the supernatural.

If yours hasn't, then obviously that isn't pertinent for you personally, but it seems wise to me to admit that others have their own experience and their own interpretation of those experiences (often not easily falsified).

A good example is Philip K. Dick's experience of apparently hallucinating a pink beam of light telling him his son needed medical care. He took the kid to the hospital, and found his child had a hernia, IIRC.

could that be coincidence, or his drug-addled subconscious picking up on some subtle behavioral cues from his kid? Yep.

Could it have been something beyond human ken? Also possible.

Can we confirm or falsify either of those possibilities? I don't see how.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#136

Post by phs318u »

burrows wrote: post #133
phs318u wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "good" is too hard to define, maybe "asshole" is less so? In which case, be the opposite of an asshole.

> In which case, be the opposite of an asshole. Why?

Being an asshole is something you can only be as a result of interaction with others in some way. A perfect hermit can’t be an asshole. Therefore, assuming being an asshole means your interactions with others are negatively felt, you’re therefore imposing your will on others at the expense of others. It’s fundamentally anti/democratic and anti-social. The reason that’s important is because we live in a society and well functioning society requires its members to play nice. Otherwise it begins to fall apart. In other words, I’m saying you should logically choose to not be an asshole. Assuming of course you gain some benefit from being part of a functioning society.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#137

Post by burrows »

phs318u wrote: post #136
burrows wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In which case, be the opposite of an asshole. Why?

Being an asshole is something you can only be as a result of interaction with others in some way. A perfect hermit can’t be an asshole. Therefore, assuming being an asshole means your interactions with others are negatively felt, you’re therefore imposing your will on others at the expense of others. It’s fundamentally anti/democratic and anti-social. The reason that’s important is because we live in a society and we…

But don’t I benefit most by covertly defecting (crypto-assholing) in a well functioning society? Then I get the standard benefits of the society and some stolen ones.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#138

Post by burrows »

NateEag wrote: post #135
burrows wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd readily grant that most (maybe all?) supernatural claims cannot be falsified, but that doesn't prove they're false. What is the meaning of a claim whose truth has no impact on my sense experience?

For many, many people, their sense experience has included some interactions with what they perceive to be the supernatural. If yours hasn't, then obviously that isn't pertinent for you personally, but it seems wise to me to admit that others have their own experience and their own interpretation of those experiences (often not easily falsified). A good example is Philip K. Dick's experience of apparently hallucinati…

> For many, many people, their sense experience has included some interactions with what they perceive to be the supernatural.

How can you perceive the supernatural? If you perceive it, then it’s sense data. So photons and sound waves.

> A good example is Philip K. Dick's experience of apparently hallucinating a pink beam of light telling him his son needed medical care. He took the kid to the hospital, and found his child had a hernia, IIRC.

Not having a good explanation for how you know something does not imply fairies did it.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#139

Post by NateEag »

burrows wrote: post #138
NateEag wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many, many people, their sense experience has included some interactions with what they perceive to be the supernatural. If yours hasn't, then obviously that isn't pertinent for you personally, but it seems wise to me to admit that others have their own experience and their own interpretation of those experiences (often not easily falsified). A good example is Philip K. Dick's experience of apparently hallucinati…

> For many, many people, their sense experience has included some interactions with what they perceive to be the supernatural. How can you perceive the supernatural? If you perceive it, then it’s sense data. So photons and sound waves. > A good example is Philip K. Dick's experience of apparently hallucinating a pink beam of light telling him his son needed medical care. He took the kid to the hospital, and found his…

> If you perceive it, then it’s sense data. So photons and sound waves.

This presumes materialism, which many believers in the supernatural do not grant.

Even in a materialist framing, where the brain is the source of all perception and experience, these things could originate as strictly internal phenomena, not triggered by senses.

It's also conceivable a supernatural being / Simulator could tweak things directly in your brain to communicate, which stays fairly materialist but still allows for non-sense-driven communication.

Are these plausible? Perhaps not. They are conceivable, though.

Your perspective is perfectly valid and rational, but holding yours out as the correct answer won't help you understand perspectives other than yours.

> Not having a good explanation for how you know something does not imply fairies did it.

Since I didn't bring fairies up, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

If you have no good explanation for something, that's not great grounds for saying "I'm sure the true explanation lines up with the way I see the world."

And yes, that cuts both ways, and a little more humility would hurt neither side.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#140

Post by phs318u »

burrows wrote: post #137
phs318u wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being an asshole is something you can only be as a result of interaction with others in some way. A perfect hermit can’t be an asshole. Therefore, assuming being an asshole means your interactions with others are negatively felt, you’re therefore imposing your will on others at the expense of others. It’s fundamentally anti/democratic and anti-social. The reason that’s important is because we live in a society and we…

But don’t I benefit most by covertly defecting (crypto-assholing) in a well functioning society? Then I get the standard benefits of the society and some stolen ones.

Maybe, maybe not. Are there victimless crimes? A lot of people may think insurance fraud is such a thing but clearly that's a narrow view of "victimless". I do think you're right at some level or else being an asshole wouldn't have any survival advantage and would perhaps not have survived as a trait (assuming some heritable basis for being an asshole). But then how do you explain people who seemingly derive joy from pure trolling? No personal benefit other than lulz. Sounds a little sociopathic no? Then again, maybe these people are nature's chaos monkyes. Sowing the seeds of destructive change. Who knows.

I just know that I personally choose to try and not be an asshole.

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