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Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

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Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#341

Post by bismuthcrystal »

davenaff wrote: post #241
namecheapTA wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics still matter. The odds of dying in a car accident throughout your life are about 1 in 100. If you take out suicide and gang violence, getting shot randomly is much less likely than dying in a car. Yet I go and drive around for fun some days and don't worry one but about it.

Guns are now the leading cause of death for people under the age of 24 in the US (and have been for several years). Yes, they exceed motor vehicle deaths. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2022/05/25/guns-are...

Remove gun violence. Remove self defense. Remove gang violence.

The chance of someone just waking up, loading a gun and shooting you point blank for no reason are very small.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#342

Post by Nextgrid »

chii wrote: post #325
kumarvvr wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but why would a complete ban on citizens owning guns, unless for very special cases not severely curb gun violence?

it would curb spur of the moment shootings, and may be accidental, or simple premeditated ones. It would not stop a determined religious or fundamentalist fanatic, as guns can still be acquired even if banned. Plus, a complete ban on civilians owning guns is very unlikely to ever happen in the USA.

> It would not stop a determined religious or fundamentalist fanatic, as guns can still be acquired even if banned.

That's also the case in every country where guns are illegal and yet in practice it remains a very rare occurrence.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#343

Post by madeofpalk »

achenet wrote: post #332
chii wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take is that gun violence has several different categories, and gun control only helps some of them (such as accidental, or emotional, spur of the moment shootings), but doesn't prevent any premeditated ones. It will not stop people like the one at 4th july, nor those school shootings. Unless the gun control laws completely outlaw civilians owning guns - which i dont think will fly. The root cause of gun violence…

Strongly disagree. Access to powerful firearms vastly increases how damaging shootings are. Compare the single death in a decade for Japan to the hundreds, if not thousands of deaths per year from gun violence in the US[0] [1]. Keeping guns out of circulation reduces gun deaths. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r...

"It's the exception that proves the rule".

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#344

Post by daenz »

Nextgrid wrote: post #339
daenz wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns, but only for criminals and rich people? No thanks.

Better than having guns for criminals, rich people and unhinged teenagers looking to shoot their school.

The largest demographic (hundreds of millions of people), which you seem to have left out, is law abiding citizens looking to protect themselves and their families.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#345

Post by ben-schaaf »

vlovich123 wrote: post #171
mullingitover wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will not stop people like the one at 4th july, nor those school shootings. Unless the gun control laws completely outlaw civilians owning guns - which i dont think will fly. You sure about that? If we had an aggressive gun buyback program and really dried up the supply, sure, you might still be able to buy an assault rifle from the criminal underworld. However, if you have the disposable income to be able to aff…

That’s not how gun buy back programs work. Hint they don’t and never have. It’s the same as what happened to that town that tried to solve their rat problem by paying people to bring rat heads. Some enterprising townsfolk started breeding rats.

It's quite difficult to breed guns.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#346

Post by otherme123 »

irusensei wrote: post #340
otherme123 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's Brazil, no other country in the world has more than 40,000 firearm deaths per year.

Yeap. News about people getting killed during a robbery even after passively handling out their belongings without resistance are common occurrence. Criminals still with plenty access to guns after 20 years of strict control regulations are emboldened by the fact that nobody can offer resistance.

It seems obvious that firearms deaths are a multi-cause issue. If you have a highly developed country (Finland, Iceland, Switzerland...) you can also have lots of firearms without fearing also massive killings. But if half your society is born and raised under violence (El Salvador, Venezuela, Honduras...) + easy firearms + raging black markets operating freely, it's a recipe for disaster. I wouldn't expect less deaths in Brazil by getting more guns in the streets and encouraging resistance: Venezuela is already there (more than twice the guns of Brazil, handguns and semiautomatic are more or less allowed, you only need a license), and their death rates are the worst in the world.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#347

Post by [deleted] »

daenz wrote: post #344
Nextgrid wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than having guns for criminals, rich people and unhinged teenagers looking to shoot their school.

The largest demographic (hundreds of millions of people), which you seem to have left out, is law abiding citizens looking to protect themselves and their families.

[deleted]

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#348

Post by Nextgrid »

daenz wrote: post #344
Nextgrid wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than having guns for criminals, rich people and unhinged teenagers looking to shoot their school.

The largest demographic (hundreds of millions of people), which you seem to have left out, is law abiding citizens looking to protect themselves and their families.

Protect themselves from what? Unhinged people with guns? Seems like recursion.

People in other countries where guns are illegal seem to do just fine without having to protect themselves using their own firearms.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#349

Post by Cloudef »

summerlight wrote: post #47
tonfreed wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns are completely illegal there. Like you could point one at the average cop and it's so unthinkable that you'd have a real one they'd assume it was a toy. I think you might be onto something with the Yakuza, could be foreign activity as well.

No, it's not completely illegal, although it's heavily regulated. You can have a shotgun or an air gun with an approval and periodic check up from authority. And the suspect is known to use a shotgun for this crime.

I don't think you can carry in open though, those are meant for hunting use. I don't know the details, but for example in finland, gun license only allows you to carry a specific gun in specific places and at specific times, you need license for each gun and for each purpose.

Re: Former Japan PM Shinzo Abe Unconscious After Shooting; Man in Custody

#350

Post by iepathos »

presentation wrote: post #250
cowtools wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a slippery slope to every state having restrictive NY-like gun laws. I don't care about legal or cultural precedent in germany or the EU. This isn't germany. The US plays a far more important role in global affairs, and as such must take more dramatic measures to prevent it from falling into the hands of some regime, those measures include the right to bear arms as well as freedom of speech and freedom of rel…

Lol the fact that random people have guns has nothing to do with US dominance, and it’s not random people with guns that will protect the US in an exceedingly unlikely armed conflict on US soil, it’s the army - which has no shortage of funding. Unless you’re saying that random armed people are going to defend against a coup from our own army - doubtful. Hypothetical “defense” at what cost? Mass shootings every week i…

I agree that random people with guns has nothing to do with US dominance globally, but you're wrong that the US army would win versus the armed civilians in the country. There are only 1 million US army soldiers and over 81 million armed civilians in the US capable of fighting a sustained guerilla war. You only need to look at history to know that's a bad scenario for any armed forces trying to take and hold control of a region. I agree the cost of mass shootings and also just regular daily non-mass shootings are not worth it in modern society.
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