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Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

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Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#111

Post by kelseyfrog »

scotty79 wrote: post #110
kelseyfrog wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has taken a conscious expressed interest in becoming intimately familiar with the world of social interaction and emotion, critically examining this mindset is the first step toward realizing that growth. The "measurable equals real" assumption while a fine heuristic, is just that, a generalization useful for making quick judgements, but leaves a lot on the table - empathy, emotion, personal interactio…

> The difference is striking. Dropping an absolute reliance on Cartesian rationality opened the door for real human connection. I'm sorry. I'm not abandoning method and the process specifically designed for avoiding lying to yourself. Because, you know, I might lie to myself. More than I do now. Science and rationality are the best tools of constructing accurate models of reality, both internal and external. But it s…

I'm specifically getting at the application of Cartesian rationality[1] to interpersonal relationships as a misstep. Apply it to other domains without hesitation.

1. Don't mistakenly overgeneralize this to all rationality. I specified for a reason.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#112

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

abrichr wrote: post #46
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alain's advice/statements include: - All parties are terrible and you're a terrible person if you like parties - Women date abusive men because they were traumatized as a child, and they avoid nice guys, so be an asshole to women - You can't be a good person unless you had a shitty time growing up, and people only start families to deal with their own shitty family trauma, so, good luck - You are doomed to an unhappy…

Perhaps if you cite some sources for your claims (e.g. timestamped links to the relevant videos) you would not receive so many downvotes

True. But I take after Alain, in that I do not cite any sources and expect you to believe whatever I say.

(most of them come from the 2 takedown videos linked in a parent comment, the rest are from Alain's own press or blog posts writing about them)

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#113

Post by scotty79 »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #111
scotty79 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference is striking. Dropping an absolute reliance on Cartesian rationality opened the door for real human connection. I'm sorry. I'm not abandoning method and the process specifically designed for avoiding lying to yourself. Because, you know, I might lie to myself. More than I do now. Science and rationality are the best tools of constructing accurate models of reality, both internal and external. But it s…

I'm specifically getting at the application of Cartesian rationality[1] to interpersonal relationships as a misstep. Apply it to other domains without hesitation. 1. Don't mistakenly overgeneralize this to all rationality. I specified for a reason.

When it comes to people, relationships and life I remember the words of my mathematical optimization college professor:

Life is not an optimization problem.

Other words that also resonate with me are that sub-optimal solution is not provably optimal, but it's provably not the worst.

I live my life in accordance to those two statements.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#114

Post by [deleted] »

phs318u wrote: post #48
roody15 wrote: post #29

I am a bit older and have worked in IT now for almost 2 decades. (44 years old) I honestly think the general premise here holds true and perhaps applies to many of us here in computed related occupations. It seems many of us focused on STEM STEM STEM or COMPUTERS COMPUTERS COMPUTERS in education but perhaps are emotionally infantile to an extent. How many of us write programs, support infrastructure, design gadgets ……

I used to worry about being "successful" until I had an epiphany triggered by my father's death. Do you want to know what success is? Visualise the day of your funeral. Who is there? Are they sad, devastated, in tears? Are they looking at their watch or relieved you're finally gone? What does it say on your headstone? "Here lies roody15. Beloved father, husband, son. Forever in our hearts" Or will it say, "Here lies…

[deleted]

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#115

Post by downboots »

scns wrote: post #91
yakak wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends what you mean by better person. How would being a plumber or electrician make you a better person? Given jobs in a "healthy" economic system, I don't think anyone should do anything if their only goal is to show they improved society through their work. What do we know about the nuns that would have filled mother Teresa roles if she had not displaced them? When you are done working for income, if y…

Can we please stop usin Mother Theresa as an example of a good person? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa?wpr...

No post body was provided.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#116

Post by abrichr »

dwaltrip wrote: post #69
abrichr wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference is striking. Dropping an absolute reliance on Cartesian rationality opened the door for real human connection. I've recently started allowing myself to think in this direction. Can you please provide some specific examples of what this looks like?

The models of the world that we construct are very, very rough approximations. Don't hold on to them too tightly. They may be useful, but they are wrong in many important ways. There is always more to learn about the world and its vast complexity. Emotions are as important as analytical thought. They are another form of information processing -- they aren't arbitrary. Thought doesn't occur without emotion. You need b…

Thank you!

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#117

Post by burrows »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #80
verisimi wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems many of us focused on STEM STEM STEM or COMPUTERS COMPUTERS COMPUTERS in education but perhaps are emotionally infantile to an extent. 100%. Worse than that, I think we are even encouraged to be computer-like. We are told that AI can be conscious - that we are just a machine. As if emotions/intuition/spirituality are non-existent. The core problem for me is that the principles that drive most us are not ou…

I agree that intuition and spirituality is completely discounted in western/scientific culture. It is entirely possible to be a secular spiritualist. Make it a habit to feel one with nature and the world around you, without any supernaturals entering into the picture. And funnily enough, for all people dunk on experts and say they can rely on themselves instead, it is pretty much the definition of an expert to be a p…

You are not conscious, stop pretending.

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#118

Post by burrows »

NateEag wrote: post #108
anthk wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>spirituality are non-existent. It is. It doesn't exist.

> It is. [Spirituality] doesn't exist. The majority of people on the planet claim to practice some religion / have some spiritual practice. I think that means spirituality exists, as it's practiced to at least some extent by billions of people every day. Do you mean the supernatural doesn't exist? I'd readily grant that most (maybe all?) supernatural claims cannot be falsified, but that doesn't prove they're false. I…

> I'd readily grant that most (maybe all?) supernatural claims cannot be falsified, but that doesn't prove they're false.

What is the meaning of a claim whose truth has no impact on my sense experience?

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#119

Post by Swenrekcah »

burrows wrote: post #117
Swenrekcah wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that intuition and spirituality is completely discounted in western/scientific culture. It is entirely possible to be a secular spiritualist. Make it a habit to feel one with nature and the world around you, without any supernaturals entering into the picture. And funnily enough, for all people dunk on experts and say they can rely on themselves instead, it is pretty much the definition of an expert to be a p…

You are not conscious, stop pretending.

Adrift in a world of my own

Re: Alain de Botton on existential maturity and what emotional intelligence means

#120

Post by downboots »

burrows wrote: post #118
NateEag wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is. [Spirituality] doesn't exist. The majority of people on the planet claim to practice some religion / have some spiritual practice. I think that means spirituality exists, as it's practiced to at least some extent by billions of people every day. Do you mean the supernatural doesn't exist? I'd readily grant that most (maybe all?) supernatural claims cannot be falsified, but that doesn't prove they're false. I…

> I'd readily grant that most (maybe all?) supernatural claims cannot be falsified, but that doesn't prove they're false. What is the meaning of a claim whose truth has no impact on my sense experience?

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