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Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

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Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#131
Don't do it. I did. It didn't improve my life. It did make it harder. Have kids if you want them. Don't if you don't. Don't ask the internet to tell you why you should or shouldn't have kids. I'd do it again and I have my reasons, which are very personal.

For what it's worth:

* My wife is the primary caretaker and doesn't have a paid job. I split as much of the parental load with her as possible.

* My grandparents pretty much all sucked and so do my kids'. They're fine. We do the child rearing and occasionally have a date, so we hire a babysitter.

* What increase? We've expanded the scope of autism and are better at detection. This feels like a wild claim.

* Is it? Or are pockets overpopulated? I don't think saving the planet (or continuing to destroy it) is as much a matter of population control as it is behavior. Kids skew more liberal than their parents, on average. Maybe they can unscrew this.

But seriously, don't do it. It doesn't sound like you want to or you wouldn't be looking to have your mind changed. For some people it's everything and for some it's genuinely a mistake that can't be undone. If you think it might be a mistake, stop.

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#132
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put that straw man in the garden, it might scare off some birds. If the poster was infertile s/he'd have posed a different question - leaving it to the rest of the world to insinuate what motivation lies behind a question and to treat any other interpretation as "insensitive" or "stigmatisation" or what-have-you-not is just a way of putting up tripwires for people to stumble over. This happens all too often and shoul…

You focused so much on the strawman (infertility) that you forgot to answer the very real question right behind it (stigmatization of people who voluntarily choose to be child-free).

The question which was not related to the one brought up here and only was used to initiate some blame-gaming? No, since it bears no relevance to the actual question I see no need to answer it. I'll stick to the subject at hand which was what are the benefits to having children.

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

300K would barely cover the cost of an extra bedroom per child. Let alone the fact that some places around the world require one to send their child to private school, fund university costs etc.

The average home price in the USA is about 300k so clearly this is wildly overstated. Yes some parents would rather send thier kids to a private school and to be frank, we do, but that is a choice not a requirement. I don't know any place where the only option for schooling is an expensive private school. Saying that kids are not financial worth it, then constantly moving the goal posts to create a strawman to justif…

We are on HN, and the average US home price will not get you very far in NY, London, SF etc. If you want a decent academic environment (which again, I would assume most HN people would require, unlike non-HN US average), it seems like you pretty much have to go private in those cities.

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#134

Simple answer is that a lot of people enjoy having kids around. Most people would rather be living with a loving wife and kids especially in their fifties or above instead of living alone or with just a husband/wife; I say most since of course there are exceptions. For a person in twenties or thirties, kids are often a far off idea since happy to just focus on work and gain independence and having money but source of…

But yet, if you do have children, you would do it precisely in your 20s and 30s. So by the time you are 50 you will still be living alone or with just a husband/wife.

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't have someone watching out for you that really does care for you, you're going to be treated poorly. Especially if you develop any mental problems in your old age. Kids won't always do this. In fact it's possible for kids to be the ones treating you poorly in your old age, and it happens more often than people like to admit. > You don't have to have kiddos, but you do have to have someone out there near…

Oh sure, of course. But if you're the one raising them, you've got a hell of a way to bias that coin flip. Or, to extend the metaphor, mint new coins.

That's a mighty risk to take when there are countless other things to do with one's life. Lots of people would be happier taking a coin flip where the stakes aren't so high.

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever imagined that someone who's infertile or lacks reproductive organs could be capable of equalling your worth as a human being? Or do you assume that in the absence of children, human beings are only capable of a life of hedonism and self-indulgence? Your comment is a great example of the unabashed stigmatization and intolerance towards people who don't have kids by many of those who do, who at the same t…

Put that straw man in the garden, it might scare off some birds. If the poster was infertile s/he'd have posed a different question - leaving it to the rest of the world to insinuate what motivation lies behind a question and to treat any other interpretation as "insensitive" or "stigmatisation" or what-have-you-not is just a way of putting up tripwires for people to stumble over. This happens all too often and shoul…

I'm not convinced by your claims. The OP submitted a genuine question and it's obvious from the comments in this thread that people would rather react emotionally and bash somebody who has a non-conventional worldview than engage in a discussion.

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#137
I don’t have kids and don’t want them. Like you I’ve also wondered about the question because I’ve never met someone who could directly answer your very basic question.

But I have been deciding if I want a dog recently and after reading through other replies I find the reasoning the same.

A dog is like a child that’s permanently stuck at 5.

They need to be fed and cleaned, they need to be walked multiple times a day and engaged with.

My cat who’s old has started meowing while standing next to the thing he wants recently. Food, hallway, balcony, fresh water, etc. he does this on a fairly predictable schedule.

I’m a person who’s schedule is rarely predictable (except for when I was younger and single and live a rolling 30 hour day).

I like having the cat, we’re best friends. But the part of having the cat be so needy is a nightmare for me. I haven’t had a good night’s sleep in months.

The meow he does now triggers some kind of paternal instinct in me that makes it impossible for me to just quickly finish my thought at work or whatever before getting up to serve him.

A dog would be even more needy because living in a big apartment they can’t get their exercise or bathroom needs met without me dropping everything to help them.

A child is even more needy, your sleep for several years is utterly destroyed, etc. and they tend to outlive you so the commitment is the longest of the three.

Your OP also doesn’t mention any of the horrific details of childbirth.

I’d never have kids for lots of reasons, the idea of putting my best friend through that horror makes it a nonstarter.

The real answer that people have kids are one or more of: 1. a mistake 2. their partner wants them so they go along with it 3. they’re convinced by social norms that they should 4. They have a basic drive to have children

Some of the people in the first 3 who didn’t have 4 may still have that drive kick in after they have kids. It didn’t happen for my parents but they’re malignant narcissists so it’s a different story.

Distilling what many other replies seem to be trying to express, in order to be a good parent you need stamina because so much of it is unpleasant.

The unpleasant parts can be rewarding or lead to personal growth so unpleasant may not be bad in of itself.

I’ve met people who join startups from FAANG and they’re overwhelmed with the demand and pace and they leave. And I’ve met people from all over who join startups and because the mission of what the startup is trying to achieve resonates with them as something bigger than themselves that will make the world a better place they embrace the pace and the need to go above and beyond.

I’ve been at startups where I didn’t sleep a lot because I was inspired or there was a critical deadline and needed to push something over the hill with the team to survive. Now later in my career I find it harder to get the same drive and satisfaction from that same sleep deprivation regardless of the reason.

People are blinded by the ambition, romance, comradely, accomplishing something difficult, etc. basically on an emotional level to overcome the turbulence of it.

If you’re looking to decide if you want to have kids or not, then not having some kind of drive makes it a gamble of whether you develop the drive after the fact or not. Without it there’s no set of clinical reasons that will make you choose to go through with it.

The idea that you have this choice is a privilege, many people have kids without it being a considered choice.

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real answer about why people in general have children isn’t formatted like a “reason.” There’s a primal drive in most people, a kind of psychosomatic/biological imperative that drives them (to great lengths, when necessary) to have kids. That’s the real answer, and none of what you listed in the OP, including the maybe kind of true things, are a crux for that imperative.

The primal drive is only of sex. Most people throughout history wanted sex, not babies. But now with birth control people have the choice. It's the reason why the fertility rate is declining in most developed countries. I think if birth control existed in the time of Jesus, then also a large majority of people would have chosen to be childfree or have only 1-2 kids

I think sex is a tightly related primal drive, but no, I think literally children is something similar, mostly for slightly older people, mostly women, but with plenty of young people and men feeling it too. I know a lot of people like this, it seems to come in a wave at a certain life stage.

Re: Ask HN: What are the benefits to having children nowadays?

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real answer about why people in general have children isn’t formatted like a “reason.” There’s a primal drive in most people, a kind of psychosomatic/biological imperative that drives them (to great lengths, when necessary) to have kids. That’s the real answer, and none of what you listed in the OP, including the maybe kind of true things, are a crux for that imperative.

Is there a primal drive in most people though? I do not think any of my friends in high school or in college had any great longing of becoming a father - did you? They had plenty of other drives, though. So if this primal drive you speak of exists, it must somehow appear out of seemingly nowhere - indeed out of aversion - after one's mid 20. And the mechanism for that eludes me. What sort of hormonal changes lead to…

I do think it's related to age, and appears "out of nowhere." A lot of people describe it as "waking up one morning, and..." I don't know the mechanism, but sure, it might be hormonal.
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