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New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

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Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#61

Post by cam_l »

Youden wrote: post #24

I think the title is a bit misleading. The mandate is for intelligent speed assistance. I own a car with such a feature and I think it's already pretty common in higher-end vehicles even without the mandate. The form it takes in my car is that there's a little symbol with the current speed limit displayed on the HUD. The speed limit is sourced from road signs or the car's navigation data. When you exceed the speed li…

I drove a Peugeot in the UK earlier this year, with all these features, including lane assist. And driving on the 'freeway' it was more or less good (when it could find the speed limit).

On the B roads it had no more idea of what the speed limit was than I did. On roundabouts it was hit (almost) and miss.

And C roads, especially with a bit of morning ice and sunshine it actively tried to kill me, on dozens of occasions trying to steer me into oncoming traffic or off the sides of steep embankments. Even when it was technically correct in tracking me round a bend, to have to forcefully correct the car mid corner to avoid an oncoming lorry wandering into my lane is just bloody dangerous.

Personally, I just prefer to just pay attention to the road myself.

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#62

Post by novok »

belltaco wrote: post #55
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, if this is how it's implemented in every car (the article just vaguely says that some cars slow down automatically, without specifying how easy it is to override), then this is a surprisingly reasonable implementation. (Surprising, because politicians, especially in Europe, tend to go for reality-ignoring nanny-state solutions nowadays). I think doing it in a way that's respectful of the owner is a good way…

>(Surprising, because politicians, especially in Europe, tend to go for reality-ignoring nanny-state solutions nowadays) Examples?

Parts of GDPR (cookie law++, 100 people organization expectations for random one man software operations in japan, etc) and the current efforts to effectively remove end to end encryption from people's chat programs are two good examples.

The EU is not the lone offender in this of course, many other countries have similar issues, such as the USA's FATCA.

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#63

Post by novok »

belorn wrote: post #13

> ISA detects speed limits on roads through devices such as cameras and satnavs. My car will regularly detect speed signs that are adjacent to the highway, including those next to interchanges and exists. On many other occasion the camera detects signs from parallel roads and railroads, where the sign sits simply on the other side of a chain fence. Naturally as a human driver I know that 170km/h doesn't exist on road…

IMO your 170km/h example is a sanity limit you could put into most computer programs. Similarly with GPS assisted general limits and monitoring. (Ex: your in belgium, and the national max speed limit is XXXkm/h, etc)

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#64

Post by Fatnino »

cam_l wrote: post #61
Youden wrote: post #24

I think the title is a bit misleading. The mandate is for intelligent speed assistance. I own a car with such a feature and I think it's already pretty common in higher-end vehicles even without the mandate. The form it takes in my car is that there's a little symbol with the current speed limit displayed on the HUD. The speed limit is sourced from road signs or the car's navigation data. When you exceed the speed li…

I drove a Peugeot in the UK earlier this year, with all these features, including lane assist. And driving on the 'freeway' it was more or less good (when it could find the speed limit). On the B roads it had no more idea of what the speed limit was than I did. On roundabouts it was hit (almost) and miss. And C roads, especially with a bit of morning ice and sunshine it actively tried to kill me, on dozens of occasio…

This is obviously only intended to be used on A roads. That you even tried it on C roads is a bit scary.

All it does is keep you from plowing into the car in front of you on the freeway. It also does a so so job helping you stay in your lane. Helping, not doing it all on its own.

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#65

Post by b20000 »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #33
b20000 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem is that the car will limit your speed. it will not just alert you. this is incredibly dangerous as sometimes you need to drive over the speed limit to avoid accidents or dangerous drivers. instead of introducing this they should send drivers to driving school and make the police check driver licenses more often and arrest those driving without a license. in germany you can drive at any speed you want in c…

This contradicts what the poster above you is saying. Do you have a car that behaves differently and doesn't let you override it, or are you making assumptions?

read the article

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#66

Post by b20000 »

abstractbeliefs wrote: post #36
b20000 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem is that the car will limit your speed. it will not just alert you. this is incredibly dangerous as sometimes you need to drive over the speed limit to avoid accidents or dangerous drivers. instead of introducing this they should send drivers to driving school and make the police check driver licenses more often and arrest those driving without a license. in germany you can drive at any speed you want in c…

The regulators permit something akin to kickdown. While the cars will limit you under gentle/steady state driving, if you floor the accelerator to avoid an accident, the limiters will disengage: 3.6.1.4. It shall be possible for the driver to override the SCF intervention by performing a positive action, for example by pressing the accelerator control harder or deeper. from https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/…

at the cost of a delay which could make the difference between life and death

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#67

Post by Youden »

b20000 wrote: post #32
Youden wrote: post #24

I think the title is a bit misleading. The mandate is for intelligent speed assistance. I own a car with such a feature and I think it's already pretty common in higher-end vehicles even without the mandate. The form it takes in my car is that there's a little symbol with the current speed limit displayed on the HUD. The speed limit is sourced from road signs or the car's navigation data. When you exceed the speed li…

the problem is that the car will limit your speed. it will not just alert you. this is incredibly dangerous as sometimes you need to drive over the speed limit to avoid accidents or dangerous drivers. instead of introducing this they should send drivers to driving school and make the police check driver licenses more often and arrest those driving without a license. in germany you can drive at any speed you want in c…

The car doesn't limit your speed. It only alerts you or updates cruise control. You can always override it by using the pedals. Under no circumstances will the assistance system disable the brakes or accelerator.

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#68

Post by Youden »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #25
Youden wrote: post #24

I think the title is a bit misleading. The mandate is for intelligent speed assistance. I own a car with such a feature and I think it's already pretty common in higher-end vehicles even without the mandate. The form it takes in my car is that there's a little symbol with the current speed limit displayed on the HUD. The speed limit is sourced from road signs or the car's navigation data. When you exceed the speed li…

> or by the accelerator pedal gently pushing their foot back. > In some versions, the vehicle’s speed is automatically reduced. Sounds to me like it isn't so optional, and of course how hard would it be to move it from optional to non-optional?

The implementation is up to the manufacturer. In my car it's just a red symbol on the HUD. As far as I'm aware the law doesn't mandate the snippets you've quoted.

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#69

Post by Youden »

cam_l wrote: post #61
Youden wrote: post #24

I think the title is a bit misleading. The mandate is for intelligent speed assistance. I own a car with such a feature and I think it's already pretty common in higher-end vehicles even without the mandate. The form it takes in my car is that there's a little symbol with the current speed limit displayed on the HUD. The speed limit is sourced from road signs or the car's navigation data. When you exceed the speed li…

I drove a Peugeot in the UK earlier this year, with all these features, including lane assist. And driving on the 'freeway' it was more or less good (when it could find the speed limit). On the B roads it had no more idea of what the speed limit was than I did. On roundabouts it was hit (almost) and miss. And C roads, especially with a bit of morning ice and sunshine it actively tried to kill me, on dozens of occasio…

I only really use these features on the motorway. I disengage cruise control and lane keeping assist using buttons on the steering wheel just before I exit the motorway.

Re: New EU rules on car speed limiters coming into force

#70

Post by cam_l »

Fatnino wrote: post #64
cam_l wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drove a Peugeot in the UK earlier this year, with all these features, including lane assist. And driving on the 'freeway' it was more or less good (when it could find the speed limit). On the B roads it had no more idea of what the speed limit was than I did. On roundabouts it was hit (almost) and miss. And C roads, especially with a bit of morning ice and sunshine it actively tried to kill me, on dozens of occasio…

This is obviously only intended to be used on A roads. That you even tried it on C roads is a bit scary. All it does is keep you from plowing into the car in front of you on the freeway. It also does a so so job helping you stay in your lane. Helping, not doing it all on its own.

Clearly I did not use the cruise control on a C road. The lane assist seemed to be always on though, no obvious switch and menus deep I could not find a way to turn it off. That and the fact it mistook ice for lane marking is crazy.

Bad UI? or just bloody dangerous?

edit: checked and apparently it is also on by default, no permanent off switch, and there were quite a few comments from owners indicating they couldn't find the switch.. so I don't feel so bad for missing it

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