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The Swerve

locusmag.com

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Re: The Swerve

#11

Post by jacquesm »

themadturk wrote: post #5

I like Cory, and I think he's right. But he's preaching to the choir. No one who can get hold of the wheel is listening.

Technically, we all fractionally have hold of that steering wheel, but the decisions made in the boardrooms and the houses of parliament (assuming democracy, not always a given) will easily counteract the effects of private individuals deciding for themselves.

It's actually really simple: this level of comfort is not sustainable without a major re-tooling of the way we interact with the eco-system, and if we don't adapt we will be adapted, quite likely by 'downsizing'.

Re: The Swerve

#12

Post by jacquesm »

knodi123 wrote: post #10
voakbasda wrote: post #4

It is just me, or is this an open call for a proletariat revolution against the bourgeois? Any successful "plunge past the first-class passengers" will not be a peaceful event.

damn, if we only had a functional democracy.

Even if you do: that democracy will have to somehow work in concert with all of the other governments towards a single goal. We have - historically speaking - never done this. Ever. So I think the lesson will be a hard one and after that whatever remains will maybe be able to do a better job the next time around. If there is a next time around. I don't take that for granted at all.

Re: The Swerve

#13

Post by wrnr »

themadturk wrote: post #5

I like Cory, and I think he's right. But he's preaching to the choir. No one who can get hold of the wheel is listening.

The is wrong on so many levels, in most places be it country or company the bus is being steered towards what is thought to result in global carbon reduction. This is a classic example of a moth and bailey argument, if only we had the same confidence about what to do about climate change as the fact of climate change. According to this article it is as if we only need to elect the right people and then those shall do the right thing.

Re: The Swerve

#14

Post by UncleOxidant »

jacquesm wrote: post #8

Something I read in another comment on HN: "Climate denialists have gone in one smooth move from 'we'll fix it' to 'it's too late to do anything about it anyway'". Which unfortunately rings very true. The really, really big problem is that people seem to think that they personally are going to be exempt from this, that it will happen to others, but not to them. Waking up from that will be pretty harsh. But if COVID d…

There's been all kinds of comments here about how Malthus' thesis was wrong. I'd agree that was the case if we could get the vast majority of humanity on the same page and actually deal with the many crises that currently face us (climate, food, extinction,etc). But given how we've dealt with the climate crisis up til now and how we handled (or didn't handle) covid, I think Malthus was probably right. I don't think he was even factoring in human nature just carrying capacity (and his calculations there were probably flawed), but it's human nature that's driving the bus.

Re: The Swerve

#15

Post by sbierwagen »

jacquesm wrote: post #8

Something I read in another comment on HN: "Climate denialists have gone in one smooth move from 'we'll fix it' to 'it's too late to do anything about it anyway'". Which unfortunately rings very true. The really, really big problem is that people seem to think that they personally are going to be exempt from this, that it will happen to others, but not to them. Waking up from that will be pretty harsh. But if COVID d…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSXIetP5iak

>Bernard: What if the Prime Minister insists we help them?

>Humphrey: Then we follow the four-stage strategy.

>Bernard: What's that?

>Richard: Standard Foreign Office response in a time of crisis. In stage one we say nothing is going to happen.

>Humphrey: Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.

>Richard: In stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we can do.

>Humphrey: Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

Re: The Swerve

#16

Post by danhak »

jacquesm wrote: post #8

Something I read in another comment on HN: "Climate denialists have gone in one smooth move from 'we'll fix it' to 'it's too late to do anything about it anyway'". Which unfortunately rings very true. The really, really big problem is that people seem to think that they personally are going to be exempt from this, that it will happen to others, but not to them. Waking up from that will be pretty harsh. But if COVID d…

Here in the U.S., at least, what has widely been maligned as "COVID denialism" was actually a deeper and more nuanced conversation about whether sudden, sweeping changes to society would prevent more harm than they cause.

And now looking at outcomes across different states (e.g. Florida vs. California)--and considering ALL outcomes (public health, homelessness, unemployment, substance abuse, mental health, truancy, graduation rates, violent crime)--it's indeed unclear that draconian policies in the name of public health were a net positive.

I am extremely concerned about climate change. But there seems to be little introspection from those who propose sweeping policy change about the need to consider second-order effects on those whose lives and livelihoods will be upturned. The general disdain for people in places like West Virginia gives me little hope that will change.

Re: The Swerve

#17

Post by jacquesm »

danhak wrote: post #16
jacquesm wrote: post #8

Something I read in another comment on HN: "Climate denialists have gone in one smooth move from 'we'll fix it' to 'it's too late to do anything about it anyway'". Which unfortunately rings very true. The really, really big problem is that people seem to think that they personally are going to be exempt from this, that it will happen to others, but not to them. Waking up from that will be pretty harsh. But if COVID d…

Here in the U.S., at least, what has widely been maligned as "COVID denialism" was actually a deeper and more nuanced conversation about whether sudden, sweeping changes to society would prevent more harm than they cause. And now looking at outcomes across different states (e.g. Florida vs. California)--and considering ALL outcomes (public health, homelessness, unemployment, substance abuse, mental health, truancy, g…

Nature really doesn't care about our feelings.

All that whining is something that my grandmothers' generation would have scoffed at: you have it relatively easy, stop complaining. 5 years of war, occupation, hunger and brutal death is the kind of thing that generation lived through - or not, in many cases - and they came through to rebuild their world without bitching about it. COVID was - compared to that, sorry - a walk in the park and we should have shouldered it collectively and dealt with it. Instead we ended up with a large fraction simply denying objective reality in the hope that it would go away. That's not how you deal with problems as an adult. In toddlers I find that acceptable, but not in grown ups.

And the ease with which demagogues used it to bend people to their will shows clearly that we have not learned anything from the very recent past, which in a way is even more worrying: apparently we are structurally incapable of retaining very hard won knowledge over a stretch longer than a human life-span leading to endless repeats.

But this time, with climate change, the stakes are a lot higher than 'the usual' price of a few million people dead, we're talking about changes on a scale that humanity has never had to deal with before.

So if we aren't going to get our act together the next 100 years or so will not at all be pleasant, to put it very mildly, and going on the assumption that it isn't way too late already.

Re: The Swerve

#18

Post by mberning »

danhak wrote: post #16
jacquesm wrote: post #8

Something I read in another comment on HN: "Climate denialists have gone in one smooth move from 'we'll fix it' to 'it's too late to do anything about it anyway'". Which unfortunately rings very true. The really, really big problem is that people seem to think that they personally are going to be exempt from this, that it will happen to others, but not to them. Waking up from that will be pretty harsh. But if COVID d…

Here in the U.S., at least, what has widely been maligned as "COVID denialism" was actually a deeper and more nuanced conversation about whether sudden, sweeping changes to society would prevent more harm than they cause. And now looking at outcomes across different states (e.g. Florida vs. California)--and considering ALL outcomes (public health, homelessness, unemployment, substance abuse, mental health, truancy, g…

There is a great hubris at play. Man is so foolish.

Re: The Swerve

#19

Post by hgomersall »

danhak wrote: post #16
jacquesm wrote: post #8

Something I read in another comment on HN: "Climate denialists have gone in one smooth move from 'we'll fix it' to 'it's too late to do anything about it anyway'". Which unfortunately rings very true. The really, really big problem is that people seem to think that they personally are going to be exempt from this, that it will happen to others, but not to them. Waking up from that will be pretty harsh. But if COVID d…

Here in the U.S., at least, what has widely been maligned as "COVID denialism" was actually a deeper and more nuanced conversation about whether sudden, sweeping changes to society would prevent more harm than they cause. And now looking at outcomes across different states (e.g. Florida vs. California)--and considering ALL outcomes (public health, homelessness, unemployment, substance abuse, mental health, truancy, g…

The problem is not specific to people that want to stop climate change. The general disdain for people in places like Western Virginia can be attributed to the dominance of neoliberal philosophy (insofar as it can be described as a philosophy).

My experience is that the most vocal proponents of proper strategies to address climate change are also the most vocal supporters of social justice.

Re: The Swerve

#20

Post by karaterobot »

I guess I'm in the camp that says that unless there are a bunch of people in the back row trying to sew a bus-sized parachute together out of old clothes, we're screwed.

In other words, the only hope I have left is that somebody invents a climate-fixing machine. Or a bunch of different climate-fixing machines, I don't care. But, I don't see a lot of other appropriately-scaled options at this point.

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