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Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

thedrive.com

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Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#261

Post by FireBeyond »

electric_mayhem wrote: post #254
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just can’t understand why you’d give up control to a system that’s clearly still in beta. The cost of failure is way too high to take the risk.

Straw man argument. Or, you know, maybe highly specific to lazy, edge-case idiots. Autopilot and fsd still both specifically require an attentive driver. Responsible adults who understand the systems will use them appropriately- and that might mean “not at all” in unusual/chaotic conditions. For the rest, there’s Darwin awards.

Your "straw man!" claims ignore that for every 'safety' related comment or action Tesla has done, they've had to be dragged kicking and screaming into it.

First there was zero monitoring of attention. No steering wheel torque, nothing.

Then when pushed and threatened they added it, and set the "hands on steering wheel" interval to "ONCE every fifteen MINUTES".

Then they had to be threatened to reduce that to a sensible value.

All the while, Tesla: "the driver is only in the seat for legal purpose - the car is driving itself", or "use Summon to bring your car to you while you deal with a fussy child".

So you can call them lazy edge-case idiots all you like.

But you can't pretend that Tesla hasn't absolutely fostered and nurtured this culture, because they have.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#262

Post by FireBeyond »

Someone wrote: post #212
yladiz wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are not (currently) using an autonomous car. If you think so you are an idiot. Let's define autonomous as self driving. According to their marketing page[1]: > Tesla cars come standard with advanced hardware capable of providing Autopilot features, and full self-driving capabilities—through software updates designed to improve functionality over time. So it has capabilities of autonomous driving, which means a…

They phrase it weirdly (accidentally/possibly/probably/certainly (take your pick) in order to confuse the readers), but all that says is that they eventually will provide the software running on the hardware you buy today to actually do it.

"The driver is only in the seat for legal purposes - the car is driving itself".

> but all that says is that they eventually will provide the software running on the hardware you buy today to actually do it

Most of their language about "eventually" very very strongly implies that the only hold up is regulatory, not software.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#264

Post by oliwary »

jaxn wrote: post #45
kypro wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess to pay devil's advocate here the question you need to be asking is if it would still be worth it if a loved one was driving your Tesla and they crashed because your Tesla drove them into a train. Even if Tesla Autopilot was significantly safer than a human driver I know I would still struggle knowing a love one died because the AI in my car decide to make a really stupid (albeit unlikely) decision. Right or w…

I think of it in terms of I am still piloting the vehicle, but FSD is executing the maneuvers. This means that I am able to focus on the bigger picture (looking further forward, paying attention to what is going on in all lanes, etc). I am a MUCH safer driver with autopilot/FSD than without. So, to your devil's advocate, I am sure I would blame myself if my family member died while driving my car no matter what the c…

Interesting! Kind of like pair programming, but for driving. Do you think there are any interface cues that could make this style of working with the system more efficient?

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#265

Post by electric_mayhem »

FireBeyond wrote: post #261
electric_mayhem wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Straw man argument. Or, you know, maybe highly specific to lazy, edge-case idiots. Autopilot and fsd still both specifically require an attentive driver. Responsible adults who understand the systems will use them appropriately- and that might mean “not at all” in unusual/chaotic conditions. For the rest, there’s Darwin awards.

Your "straw man!" claims ignore that for every 'safety' related comment or action Tesla has done, they've had to be dragged kicking and screaming into it. First there was zero monitoring of attention. No steering wheel torque, nothing. Then when pushed and threatened they added it, and set the "hands on steering wheel" interval to "ONCE every fifteen MINUTES". Then they had to be threatened to reduce that to a sensib…

I covered all that.

Someone abandons common sense and abdicates responsibility for themselves in favor of believing the hype from a money-crazed billionaire?

Prime candidates for Darwin awards, whether they own a tesla or not.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#266

Post by ncmncm »

pyinstallwoes wrote: post #233
ncmncm wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really?

Yes, really. The world is obese with fantastical conclusions propagated by terrible practice of first hand experience and thus spreads rumors and worse.

You know this for an absolute fact and swear to it on first hand knowledge?

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#267

Post by ncmncm »

MarkMarine wrote: post #249
ncmncm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sue, I guess. Seems like they would settle quickly because fighting tens of thousands of lawsuits would look bad. And, maybe anyway cost more than settling.

I think for the money I’d be in small claims court against the skill of Tesla’s legal team, I’ll get washed so I don’t think it’s worth my time. Honestly, I didn’t even want full FSD. Tesla dropped the price of my car by 10k after I’d purchased but before I took delivery, they gave me this as a way to smooth it over so I didn’t just cancel my delivery, eat the 2k fee and re-order saving myself 8k. I didn’t trust Musk…

Common practice among corporations in small-claims court is to default, because just showing up would cost more. It is worth a try.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#268

Post by AlexandrB »

thedevelopnik wrote: post #61
makeworld wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man, they're not using lidar? I had no idea, that's crazy they're just putting cars on the road just cameras and AI. Jeez.

Elon thinks that because humans can do all this with two eyes his cars should be able to do it with just cameras. Literal truth.

Seems like another example of Moravec's paradox[1]. The higher order decisions involved in driving seem hard because we're conscious of them. But our visual system is assumed to be "just two cameras" because we have no conscious awareness of what's going on when we create an internal representation of our surroundings using our eyes.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravec%27s_paradox

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#269

Post by [deleted] »

thathndude wrote: post #22
NelsonMinar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand how Tesla markets something as "Autopilot" and "Full Self-Driving" and then also says "oh it's beta" and "you must be ready to take control of the car at any second".

I’m a lawyer, and I don’t get it. How hasn’t the FCC shut them down? I get it, they have an asterisk, and the asterisk makes clear that it’s not full self driving. But this feels to me like selling a product as boneless, including an asterisk, and then saying “actually not boneless, chew carefully”.

[deleted]
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