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Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

thedrive.com

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Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#241

Post by enragedcacti »

pxmpxm wrote: post #205
js2 wrote: post #76

Unprotected left turns are one of the most dangerous situations in driving. I consider myself a competent driver, haven't been in an accident in over two decades, and I barely trust myself to make an unprotected left. I've heard that UPS (used to?) ban their drivers from making unprotected lefts. Not in a million years would I ever trust this maneuver to software. Humans screw it up all the time: https://old.reddit.c…

Motorcycle rider here, cars doing left turns across oncoming traffic account for the majority of car x bike collisions. If the drivers' eyes aren't on you, you're about to join that statistic.

Just to add to that, the driver could also have failed to accurately judge the motorcycle's speed. Motorcycle's being so skinny and relatively uncommon makes drivers perceive them as going slower than they are and being farther away than they are.

It's one of the many reasons speeding is so dangerous on a motorcycle, the driver might see you but still think they have a gap because their perception of speed is all wrong. It's much safer to go the speed a car would be going so that you align with what the driver expects to see day to day.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#242

Post by klyrs »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #227
klyrs wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever somebody calls musk the smartest man in the world, they don't understand the connection between data labeling and Tesla's propensity to stop for nothing and crash into stopped emergency vehicles.

OpenPilot doesn’t have a data labeling team. I think you should do some more research before doing a drive by comment on something you know nothing about.

Tesla's extremely well-documented results speak louder than whatever theory you've made a drive-by assertion that I know nothing about.

Has OpenPilot achieved level 5 autonomy? No? Keep it off the road.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#243

Post by hristov »

Someone wrote: post #228
hristov wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cruise and Waymo have lidar. Lidar can give you much more certainty about detecting objects and distances. Teslas only use cameras and have to do complex image analysis to detect objects. On the other hand lidar is more expensive. But it is getting cheaper and it does seem like it might be necessary for actual self driving.

Having LiDAR may make it easier to implement, but there are plenty of humans who can drive well without LiDAR, so having LiDAR isn’t necessary.

The human brain is far faster at image processing than any computer you may be able to put in a car. So shortcuts are necessary. Perhaps one shortcut is to get actual reliable object shape and position data from Lidar than trying to infer it from flat images.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#244

Post by perihelions »

nabla9 wrote: post #140
ncmncm wrote: post #2

??? I thought that was what it was for. Or maybe for making wacky collision vids on YouTube? Tesla just closed their whole self-driving office in San Mateo, and fired ("for poor performance") most of the staff, directing some to come to work across the bay. For now. People still employed on that activity would best update their résumés. People who paid for self-driving already? I would ask for a refund, in your shoes…

> Tesla just closed their whole self-driving office in San Mateo, They closed office full of hourly workers labeling data, because their automated process can do it with less people. Those guys are not AI engineers, they are doing menial work.

"Menial work" that's life-critical and impacts the safety of millions of vehicles on the road.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#245

Post by petilon »

Someone wrote: post #228
hristov wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cruise and Waymo have lidar. Lidar can give you much more certainty about detecting objects and distances. Teslas only use cameras and have to do complex image analysis to detect objects. On the other hand lidar is more expensive. But it is getting cheaper and it does seem like it might be necessary for actual self driving.

Having LiDAR may make it easier to implement, but there are plenty of humans who can drive well without LiDAR, so having LiDAR isn’t necessary.

We don't want robots to make human-level mistakes. Robotic drivers should work much better than humans, otherwise they should not exist.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#246

Post by MarkMarine »

jaxn wrote: post #89
MarkMarine wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine there is a way to get a refund, but if I could I would. 10k on something they won’t even let me beta test because where I live triggers incorrect forward collision warnings too frequently for my driving to be considered good enough. I was skeptical but paid up front, and I’m pretty sure I got taken

You need to set your forward collision warnings to 'early'. The safety score ding happens at medium. If you have it set to 'late', you will get dinged and never even know it until later.

I’ve got a baby in the car, the noise of the alert wakes him up. It’s for a bridge at the top of a hill on my way home, triggers every time. It’s not valid

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#247

Post by MarkMarine »

cm2187 wrote: post #19
MarkMarine wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine there is a way to get a refund, but if I could I would. 10k on something they won’t even let me beta test because where I live triggers incorrect forward collision warnings too frequently for my driving to be considered good enough. I was skeptical but paid up front, and I’m pretty sure I got taken

Rome?

Marin, CA

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#248

Post by MarkMarine »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #48
MarkMarine wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine there is a way to get a refund, but if I could I would. 10k on something they won’t even let me beta test because where I live triggers incorrect forward collision warnings too frequently for my driving to be considered good enough. I was skeptical but paid up front, and I’m pretty sure I got taken

> they won’t even let me beta test because where I live triggers incorrect forward collision warnings too frequently for my driving to be considered good enough WTF. And I guess they will still compare "Autopilot" accidents with your average driver's, when they are literally combing (supervisor) drivers for their skill?

It’s their crap tech that can’t tell an overhead bridge from a real obstacle.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#249

Post by MarkMarine »

ncmncm wrote: post #59
MarkMarine wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine there is a way to get a refund, but if I could I would. 10k on something they won’t even let me beta test because where I live triggers incorrect forward collision warnings too frequently for my driving to be considered good enough. I was skeptical but paid up front, and I’m pretty sure I got taken

Sue, I guess. Seems like they would settle quickly because fighting tens of thousands of lawsuits would look bad. And, maybe anyway cost more than settling.

I think for the money I’d be in small claims court against the skill of Tesla’s legal team, I’ll get washed so I don’t think it’s worth my time. Honestly, I didn’t even want full FSD. Tesla dropped the price of my car by 10k after I’d purchased but before I took delivery, they gave me this as a way to smooth it over so I didn’t just cancel my delivery, eat the 2k fee and re-order saving myself 8k. I didn’t trust Musk to deliver on his promises, but that was 2018-19. In my wildest dreams I didn’t imagine it would be 2022 and they just fired the team doing it, and I still don’t even have access to a beta test.

Re: Tesla Autopilot Almost Steers Model 3 into Oncoming Train

#250

Post by jliptzin »

LtWorf wrote: post #143
jliptzin wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we’re going to try to have autonomous vehicles, at some point these things have to be tested on real roads. Would you rather have a real human behind the wheel to take over in an instant or just have the computer plow through whatever if there’s a bug? When you are driving tesla “autopilot” you are still liable for everything the car does, you still need to be attentive just like you normally would. If the car cra…

You get way more distracted if you are doing nothing rather than if you're actually doing something. So I'd expect the reaction times for people to stop an autopilot from killing them are actually much higher than the reaction times of a driver.

Then they should not be using autopilot. When I have autopilot engaged I am way more alert. Also you aren’t “doing nothing” when you have autopilot engaged. The car annoys you if it doesn’t sense any force on the wheel within 10 seconds and even if you are looking at your phone (or anywhere other than the road) the car annoys you too (yes there’s a camera in the cabin looking at you when you’re on autopilot).
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