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ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

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Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#71

Post by jeroenhd »

delecti wrote: post #45
sva_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The system [...] thought [...] Weird how people say that.

It's not accurate to say the system thought, but it's often easier to describe behavior of systems by anthropomorphizing them. We're also just very wired to ascribe intent to complex systems; it's safer for a caveman to overthink the rustling grass sometimes than to ignore it as a rule and get eaten by a lion.

Anthropomorphising automated systems also invokes certain other emotions. People are willing to forgive others for making honest mistakes, but ausomated systems should never be given such leniency because they will not learn from their mistakes.

The system didn't think anything, the system followed its programming as set out by the people who designed it. The system is either right or it simply doesn't work.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#72

Post by heretogetout »

jeroenhd wrote: post #71
delecti wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not accurate to say the system thought, but it's often easier to describe behavior of systems by anthropomorphizing them. We're also just very wired to ascribe intent to complex systems; it's safer for a caveman to overthink the rustling grass sometimes than to ignore it as a rule and get eaten by a lion.

Anthropomorphising automated systems also invokes certain other emotions. People are willing to forgive others for making honest mistakes, but ausomated systems should never be given such leniency because they will not learn from their mistakes. The system didn't think anything, the system followed its programming as set out by the people who designed it. The system is either right or it simply doesn't work.

Further, people are too quick to dismiss the culpability of engineers in the design and implementation of these technologies. It was programmed by software engineer; people like many of us on HN. This should serve as a cautionary tale for us and not just written off with the familiar "they were just doing their jobs" meme.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#73

Post by heavyset_go »

tootie wrote: post #68
xbar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the corroboration. ShotSpotter has now an earned reputation as: 1. Generally full of crap 2. Tampering with evidence as a practice

ShotSpotter is a private company that is 100% dependent on police for their business. It's a relationship that is bound to end up corrupt. Whenever ShotSpotter makes the police look bad, they'll end the contract.

The worst part about this is that there are plenty of other companies that contract with the police with similar incentives and collusion.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#75

Post by ceejayoz »

mistrial9 wrote: post #65
jakelazaroff wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The murder rate has dropped by about half, and unless you think police are somehow managing to not report corpses, we can probably trust that as at least directionally accurate. Two more trends to consider, over the same period of time: the funding for police has skyrocketed, and the murder clearance rate has plunged. So despite fewer murders occuring and record funding, the police are still solving less of them than…

add another factor -- an Emergency Room Nurse told me that the murder rate would be substantially higher except for advances in trauma medicine over the last few decades, as well. This is from a city you have heard of in the USA with consistent, serious urban murder rates.

Other forms of crime, including violent crimes like the sort that might've lead to death before our advances in trauma care - assaults, stabbings, shootings, etc. - are similarly down. It's not just a drop in murder; it's across the board.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#76

Post by gaws »

MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #36

VICE is so frustratingly good at doing investigative journalism while simultaneously being filled to the brim with total crap.

> VICE is so frustratingly good at doing investigative journalism while simultaneously being filled to the brim with total crap.

People should focus on their investigative stuff rather than the clickbait. They'll be less mad in the long run.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#77

Post by rpmisms »

_jal wrote: post #31
rpmisms wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our gun crime rates per gun are flabbergastingly low. Our gun crime rates per capita are excellent, except in some of the largest cities.

> Our gun crime rates per gun are flabbergastingly low I think I'm going to start reporting our bug resolution counts by text editor.

It's like bug reports per user. Obviously if you have 4 users, you're going to have fewer bug reports.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#78

Post by dontbenebby »

dmix wrote: post #46
dontbenebby wrote: post #40

Can they abuse those mics to pick up human conversation?

They claim in the complaint that the microphones protect privacy by only recording audio when sharp high pitched sounds happen and they limit recordings to 30 seconds. Of course they are listening 24/7, it's just the persistence part that's capped. The microphones are also high up, like in light posts, so it's not the best place for audio surveillance.

You'd be surprised how much conversation you can hear from 30 feet straight up.

I'd worry someone can tap the line the way you used to be able to clip a butt set to a junction box surrounded obscured by a tree planted by the neighborhood association and listen in on the wine moms discussing who they're cheating with this week.

(To be clear, that's something you do a few times as a minor, then hopefully learn your lesson that knowing too much is not fun and it's better to avoid abusing your access at all costs if you value your sanity)

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#79

Post by indymike »

b112 wrote: post #53
indymike wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most Americans... guns are used as a tool just like in rural Canada.

Maybe, but every time I bring it up, I find myself having to distinguish Canadian usage, from US gun usage. Many Americans seem to think the entire planet is Just Like Them, not realising that many countries don't have issues with guns, and don't have Us VS Them style politics either. Frankly, the biggest problem we have with guns is smuggled handguns from the US. That is, illegal gun ownership. Honestly, I think eve…

> Frankly, the biggest problem we have with guns is smuggled handguns from the US. That is, illegal gun ownership.

This is a huge problem in the US, as well. Most gun crimes are committed with unregistered, stolen, borrowed, or otherwise illegally obtained handguns. It's uncommon to have a crime where the weapons were purchased legally by the criminal.

> For example, get charged with a violent crime? Your license is immediately suspended, and you cannot have guns any more.

It is the same thing here. If you are charged with a violent crime, your guns will be seized. If you are convicted, you cannot own legally without a court order re-instating your rights.

> because your politics are infecting our politics, as many people barely understand the law, or that "there isn't here".

All politics are local, and the internet is global. The issue in the US is that the urban areas don't understand the need for firearms in rural areas. Rural people don't understand how dangerous firing even a .22 rifle is in a city, how terrifying seeing someone with a 9mm on their hip in a crowd is, or how many street criminals will target you just to steal your gun.

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