ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed • Hacker News Board

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#21

Post by ceejayoz » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 2:11 PM UTC

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #18

TillE wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just replacing their anecdotes with your anecdotes. Why not look at actual data, which is likely to tell you that crime has plunged everywhere since the 80s.

>Why not look at actual data, which is likely to tell you that crime has plunged everywhere since the 80s. Overall yes, but not everywhere in my opinion. Many places got safer, but some places got much worse edit: added "Yes, but" for clarification.

Sorta true - there will always be outliers - but not in the way you may think.

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/periodicals/em/summer16/highl...

> Disadvantaged neighborhoods have experienced larger drops in crime, although significant disparities persist.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#22

Post by sva_ » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 2:16 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #10

We had a similar case of ShotSpotter faking shots for the cops in my city. https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2017/11/17/s... > On April 1, 2016, the ShotSpotter sensors picked up several audio bursts from a northwest Rochester neighborhood. Unable through its algorithms to detect a specific location, the system did not alert 911 or police. The system also thought the sounds to be the whirring blades of…

> The system [...] thought [...]

Weird how people say that.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#23

Post by dtgriscom » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 2:17 PM UTC

discretion22 wrote: post #16

xchaotic wrote: post #7

ShotSpotter execs learn about Streisand effect the hard way. Living in Europe, I have never heard of the company, now I have.

Alas, because you have not heard of them, does not mean your local police have not heard of them (they are probably using them already - even if you have astonishingly low gun crime in Europe, making the exercise a pointless waste of money). In Europe, companies selling to the police are extremely discrete and generally keep a hyper low profile, particularly when selling technology (dubious or otherwise). These deals…

> astonishingly low gun crime in Europe, making the exercise a pointless waste of money

Worse than that; if you listen long enough and carefully enough, you will hear gunshots. It's like over-used medical testing: look for a problem, find a problem, treat the problem, even if had you never looked the patient would generally be better off.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#24

Post by b112 » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

dtgriscom wrote: post #23

discretion22 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alas, because you have not heard of them, does not mean your local police have not heard of them (they are probably using them already - even if you have astonishingly low gun crime in Europe, making the exercise a pointless waste of money). In Europe, companies selling to the police are extremely discrete and generally keep a hyper low profile, particularly when selling technology (dubious or otherwise). These deals…

> astonishingly low gun crime in Europe, making the exercise a pointless waste of money Worse than that; if you listen long enough and carefully enough, you will hear gunshots. It's like over-used medical testing: look for a problem, find a problem, treat the problem, even if had you never looked the patient would generally be better off.

Rural Canada here, in an area with no real gun crime.

There are people on their farms shooting things (rabid animals), or hunting in season.

I guess you could only use these things in downtown of a city, otherwise so many false positives..

I can't even imagine in the US, land of 7 guns per person, plus of course the dogs are even armed...

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#25

Post by gebruikersnaam » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #13

jbirer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Have you considered that if this happens every time, that the miscalibration might be on your end?

You're on to something: "nothing happens until I arrive there"

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#26

Post by millzlane » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 2:33 PM UTC

TillE wrote: post #17

jbirer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

That's just replacing their anecdotes with your anecdotes. Why not look at actual data, which is likely to tell you that crime has plunged everywhere since the 80s.

Did it plunge though, or did people stop reporting, and police stop taking reports? Do we know why it plunged?

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#27

Post by _jal » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 2:35 PM UTC

InCityDreams wrote: post #19

discretion22 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alas, because you have not heard of them, does not mean your local police have not heard of them (they are probably using them already - even if you have astonishingly low gun crime in Europe, making the exercise a pointless waste of money). In Europe, companies selling to the police are extremely discrete and generally keep a hyper low profile, particularly when selling technology (dubious or otherwise). These deals…

"...even if you have astonishingly low gun crime in Europe...." Er, no. You have astonishingly high gun crime in the States. Sorry 'bout that.

You're getting downvoted of course, but it is true - the US is the outlier among rich nations.

Per capita, the US is just behind Panama; in absolute numbers, Brazil is ahead by about 14%.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-viole...

Comparing just to other rich countries shows stark differences:

https://www.healthdata.org/acting-data/gun-violence-united-s...

It isn't even close.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#28

Post by rpmisms » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 2:35 PM UTC

InCityDreams wrote: post #19

discretion22 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alas, because you have not heard of them, does not mean your local police have not heard of them (they are probably using them already - even if you have astonishingly low gun crime in Europe, making the exercise a pointless waste of money). In Europe, companies selling to the police are extremely discrete and generally keep a hyper low profile, particularly when selling technology (dubious or otherwise). These deals…

"...even if you have astonishingly low gun crime in Europe...." Er, no. You have astonishingly high gun crime in the States. Sorry 'bout that.

Our gun crime rates per gun are flabbergastingly low. Our gun crime rates per capita are excellent, except in some of the largest cities.

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#29

Post by humanistbot » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 2:35 PM UTC

sva_ wrote: post #22

ceejayoz wrote: post #10

We had a similar case of ShotSpotter faking shots for the cops in my city. https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2017/11/17/s... > On April 1, 2016, the ShotSpotter sensors picked up several audio bursts from a northwest Rochester neighborhood. Unable through its algorithms to detect a specific location, the system did not alert 911 or police. The system also thought the sounds to be the whirring blades of…

> The system [...] thought [...] Weird how people say that.

We need to stop calling it "machine 'learning'"

Re: ShotSpotter defamation lawsuit against Vice has been dismissed

#30

Post by wbl » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

yieldcrv wrote: post #20

xchaotic wrote: post #7

ShotSpotter execs learn about Streisand effect the hard way. Living in Europe, I have never heard of the company, now I have.

Yeah for the past decade I’ve had awesome results by not doing anything during a controversy, and then sending DMCA requests and other digital cleanup methods to every source a few weeks later The idea was that people’s system caches would have deleted stuff by then, so anyone that noticed at that point couldn’t go resurrect to attempt to start a Streisand Browsers and the internet are super different now, but the sa…

You can only issue a DCMA request on behalf of the copyright holder. There is no takedown for butthurt.