What do lawyers do? • Hacker News Board

Re: What do lawyers do?

#91

Post by sib » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 5:30 PM UTC

t_mann wrote: post #83

> Law is an impressionistic business, much less scientific than macroeconomics or inflation management Not sure if this is an intended jab at economists or just an ironic misconception. Macroeconomics is arguably the academic discipline with the worst track record in terms of prediction, and inflation is the biggest mystery within there. I remember in 2014, then ECB president Mario Draghi was asked whether stimulus m…

As one of my advisors in college (very senior, tenured macroeconomic professor, who had been on a US President's board of economic advisors) said to me,

"If you lined all the economists in the world up end-to-end, they still wouldn't reach a conclusion!"

Re: What do lawyers do?

#92

Post by staticman2 » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

ABCLAW wrote: post #80

thesausageking wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great lawyer can also cause the other side to spend a ton of money responding discovery requests and motions. In fact, a common strategy is to get the other side's legal bill to be so high they eventually give up. I've seen this kill multiple startups who end up in disputes with large tech companies. Even if the startup is 100% in the right, the large co can tie them up in a lawsuit for years and VCs won't back a s…

This isn't a "great lawyer" play . It's the standard play for any unscrupulous party engaged against a party with limited funds. Even if a case is pretty open and shut, you can tie it up for years in motions for little benefit. This isn't hard at all.It's hard to be on the other side and respond to it. A great lawyer can achieve a settlement against a party like this without the need to throw sacks of cash onto a fir…

"A great lawyer can achieve a settlement against a party like this without the need to throw sacks of cash onto a firepit."

A lawyer, good or bad, has no control whether the other party settles.

Re: What do lawyers do?

#93

Post by Jugurtha » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 5:33 PM UTC

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #84

Jugurtha wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have you thought about trying local small accounting firms/law firms for your taxes as opposed to monolith "big 4?" Yes, and we did. On several instances, we had silly problems like the accountant going to vacation right before tax deadline, other frustrations like communication problems. > big 4 people will have the best paid execs and partners but the leg work is made to be done by interns and stuff. On the other…

>Yes, and we did. On several instances, we had silly problems like the accountant going to vacation right before tax deadline, other frustrations like communication problems. are you saying a small firm's staff took a vacation during tax season? thats very strange. i have had partners in our firm delay their medical procedures til the end of tax season specifically because small offices run a tight ship and loss of a…

>are you saying a small firm's staff took a vacation during tax season? thats very strange.

The company is an LLC equivalent in Algeria. There's no tax season. Tax forms must be submitted and paid before the 20th of every month. Social security before the 30th of every month, or quarterly if the company has fewer than nine employees.

Employees don't do their own taxes; instead, the company withholds the taxes/social security and pays on their behalf (retenue à la source).

And yes, the accountant was unreachable before doing our taxes.

>are you talking about an indian small accounting firm charging as much as a big 4? nice. i would love to be them.

I'm not sure how I miscommunicated that it was in India. It's not, to be clear.

It's not the small firms charging as high as a big 4, rather the big 4 charging something that's a multiple of smaller firms, but not an order of magnitude. The fees are subject to negotiatons before signing the contract.

The way big 4s are structured allows that. They're a rather independent firms in a network sharing a name.

Re: What do lawyers do?

#94

Post by CapitalistCartr » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 5:33 PM UTC

I spent five years and multiple lawyers, until I found a good one, fighting my mortgage company, trying to get my day in court. In the end, I never did, and mostly lost. That's the power of a corporate legal team.

Re: What do lawyers do?

#95

Post by rootusrootus » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 5:35 PM UTC

calvinmorrison wrote: post #66

mlyle wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I do think it's being repulsed at the idea of killin' babies. Combined with not weighting the value of the choices of women or the impact on them or their bodies very high. Look, uh, abortion is kinda a yucky thing. There's not some bright-line moment of change and investiture with consciousness and being that happens at the moment of birth. It's only when you decide the choices and bodily autonomy of the adult w…

and "the gloves are off". If the entire government just spent 2 years justifying the coerced vaccination of the masses - all thought bodily autonomy thrown out for the greater good? Sure the Rightwingers are happy to play that game as well.

IMO comparing vaccination to women's bodily autonomy is a bad faith argument. Vaccination is about protecting society -- the protection it offers individuals who get the vaccine is incidental.

Anti-abortion folks have a stronger argument, IMO, by focusing on the liberty of the unborn child. Both sides refuse to give up ground, however, for political reasons. The logical conclusion is that there is a point somewhere on the scale between 0 and 9 months where a fetus gains enough liberty to qualify for rights of its own that can be balanced against the rights of the mother. I hope some day we can come together to define that point and codify it.

Re: What do lawyers do?

#96

Post by daniel-cussen » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

thesausageking wrote: post #74

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #55

“I was never ruined but twice: once when I lost a lawsuit, and once when I won one.” ― Voltaire Where US civil litigation (disputes) are concerned, a good lawyer looks to end the dispute before the cost of litigation approaches the value of the dispute. Once might argue the feature and bug of US tort law is the litigation becomes a third party in the case, against whom both sides must fight, hopefully finding a commo…

A great lawyer can also cause the other side to spend a ton of money responding discovery requests and motions. In fact, a common strategy is to get the other side's legal bill to be so high they eventually give up. I've seen this kill multiple startups who end up in disputes with large tech companies. Even if the startup is 100% in the right, the large co can tie them up in a lawsuit for years and VCs won't back a s…

VC's do, Paul Graham talks about this, they often face vexatious lawsuits, they just have to disclose the suit instead of hiding it and let the VC discover it. And many VC's are timid, and don't have the vision the industry lionizes, because it's an elitist characteristic.

Re: What do lawyers do?

#97

Post by daniel-cussen » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 5:44 PM UTC

ABCLAW wrote: post #80

thesausageking wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great lawyer can also cause the other side to spend a ton of money responding discovery requests and motions. In fact, a common strategy is to get the other side's legal bill to be so high they eventually give up. I've seen this kill multiple startups who end up in disputes with large tech companies. Even if the startup is 100% in the right, the large co can tie them up in a lawsuit for years and VCs won't back a s…

This isn't a "great lawyer" play . It's the standard play for any unscrupulous party engaged against a party with limited funds. Even if a case is pretty open and shut, you can tie it up for years in motions for little benefit. This isn't hard at all.It's hard to be on the other side and respond to it. A great lawyer can achieve a settlement against a party like this without the need to throw sacks of cash onto a fir…

You can also refuse to settle, just demanding the law be carried out until its last consequence, regardless of the other party offering everything you want. Sometimes if the other party fucks up in a trial and gets a contempt hearing, the plaintiff can demand double the amount demanded in the original lawsuit as a settlement, but I would recommend also demanding they allow the court to make a declaration as to their wrongdoing.

Re: What do lawyers do?

#98

Post by ape4 » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 5:47 PM UTC

thesausageking wrote: post #74

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #55

“I was never ruined but twice: once when I lost a lawsuit, and once when I won one.” ― Voltaire Where US civil litigation (disputes) are concerned, a good lawyer looks to end the dispute before the cost of litigation approaches the value of the dispute. Once might argue the feature and bug of US tort law is the litigation becomes a third party in the case, against whom both sides must fight, hopefully finding a commo…

A great lawyer can also cause the other side to spend a ton of money responding discovery requests and motions. In fact, a common strategy is to get the other side's legal bill to be so high they eventually give up. I've seen this kill multiple startups who end up in disputes with large tech companies. Even if the startup is 100% in the right, the large co can tie them up in a lawsuit for years and VCs won't back a s…

Like a DOS attack

Re: What do lawyers do?

#99

Post by jwsteigerwalt » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 5:53 PM UTC

From a consultative standpoint, a good lawyer is can be a reflection of being a good client. The same applies to business departments working with corporate counsel. Keeping questions and asks objective leads to objective response.

Re: What do lawyers do?

#100

Post by daniel-cussen » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 5:53 PM UTC

throwaway5752 wrote: post #50

jrm4 wrote: post #38

Great analysis. Even though we see the warts all of the time, I'm so incredibly impressed by "law," and I didn't get to this point until I was well out of law school. Why I'm impressed is how well the law holds itself together in the face of the massive weight of influences that have every reason in the world to try to corrupt it. It's just all too easy to speculate (or read historically) how easy it is to corrupt th…

Great point. The difficult thing, on this forum, is it is weighted towards younger and very accomplished computer scientists. Sometimes the impulse, when seeing complexity that's hard to understand (medicine, regulation, law), is to be frustrated and dismiss it. Law is amazing and much older than programming, and one of the underrated human inventions. The fact we aren't constantly killing each other over small dispu…

Many small disputes start as somebody threatening somebody else over like 1¢. Yeah like 1¢, I've gone through that, I've taken somebody to court after escalating the fuck out of a 1¢ cost. Small claims, went alone, the counterparty didn't go to negotiations, I spoke my piece, showed my evidence, corrected their translator because I spoke both languages perfectly, didn't interrupt the judge, suppressed laughter which the transcriber saw and smiled, but that's not harmful...and got everything I asked for, because I asked for exactly what I deserved. Compound interest too, 10% a year, so I can sell that debt to collections or hound that old landlady down myself, which would be a learning experience. Context, she cheated me out of the deposit and now owes me triple plus court costs plus another $45 item she cheated me out of, so like...payback is a bitch.

Biggest problem with small claims court, because there is a problem with it...don't sell popcorn. That is a problem, apart from that problem it's great but that is a problem and that means small claims has a problem...they should sell popcorn. And also the amounts are too small, small claims should go up to $50000, courts are the last to adjust for inflation, so it sucks.

And the judges get cheated out of wages can't even afford to protect themselves, the jury gets the minimum wage like what the fuck, that's disgusting, they should always get quadruple the minimum wage because they're participating in civil matters which is a legitimate priviledge of a law-abiding citizen.

But in court? You can win.