“The joy of sharing has been driven from me“ • Hacker News Board

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#251

Post by nicbou » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 8:19 AM UTC

DoneWithAllThat wrote: post #110

Something I’ve increasingly felt is that nobody should feel like they’re under any obligation to read comments on what they do or replies to what they say. In the days before the internet the options for direct feedback to an author or creator were limited and often the author or creator could or would just ignore them. It was considered a good idea! Now people have things like forums for their games or comments on t…

Sometimes the criticism is delivered directly to you, in a community you care about.

It's one thing to know that someone on the internet dislikes you. It's another to see someone do it within earshot at your favourite pub.

People on the internet make the sort of quips you'd never make within slapping distance of the subject. They do it where the subject hangs out.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#252

Post by matheusmoreira » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 8:36 AM UTC

_nalply wrote: post #249

chrisco255 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"entitlement simulators" what? I'm sorry but how are Fortnite, Call of Duty, Elden Ring, Minecraft, etc entitlement simulators? That's really scraping the bottom of the barrel for a narrative there. Lol at "speedrunning" being an indicator of colonialism impulse. It's as if the author of that talk is looking at the world through entitlement tinted glasses, heavily steeped in anti-colonialism and postmodernism and can…

I usually don't play computer games. But I know Minecraft because my children play this game. To understand the game dynamics, I played Minecraft for a few days and watched Youtube videos and consumed other contents about the game. I am sure I don't know many subtleties and the Minecraft subculture, but this is not neccessary to understand what "entitlement simulator" means: I watched how my son casually killed a vil…

This is a recognized phenomenon. Games are simulations of reality, almost always with softer rules, and players are essentially gods within that simulation.

Here's a massive collection of examples:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VideogameCruelty...

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VideoGamePervers...

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatTheHellPlaye...

And also a massive list of positive examples:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VideoGameCaringP...

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VideoGameCruelty...

> know the difference between the game world and real life

This is the norm. As far as I know, all attempts to prove otherwise have failed.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#253

Post by nicbou » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 8:47 AM UTC

david422 wrote: post #125

There are a few things I've learned - or not learned - from releasing software. 1. People like to VENT. Some people are going to post nasty stuff even though they would normally act different in person. 2. Can you turn the nasty things into something positive? People vent because they are annoyed, or angry, or confused about something. Can that be fixed? Can that be improved? There may be a legitimate issue that coul…

It's different when people vent with personal attacks, and do it in a place where your reputation matters to you.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#254

Post by johnchristopher » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 9:54 AM UTC

Beltalowda wrote: post #69

chomp wrote: post #14

Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for. I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. No one is asking for blind praise for what they create, but surely there's a middle ground between…

> I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. I said this a while ago as well[1], but there's a strong bias towards people who are unhappy with $something (for any value of $something). If you think everything is just great then you don't actually all that much to say beyond "hey, looks great!" Sometimes you can expand that to a paragraph of t…

I'll add that writing a substantive comment opens you to comments from the mob that disagrees and you can get sucked in defending your POV or simply downvoted because the mob smelled blood.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#255

Post by nicolas_t » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 10:36 AM UTC

Tarsul wrote: post #124

generalk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"continue to blame the customer?" He's never said that folks were wrong, or blamed anyone for anything. Seems to me like he just wanted folks to not be shitty. Take, for example, this comment by someone calling themselves _Proud Retro Fascist_: > Nice attempt at silencing critics. The game will fail because it is > objectively hideous and you will only have yourself to blame. > > Inthe end all you will have achieved…

Yeah, that's a very harsh comment. Nonetheless, there is something to be learnt here: If anything, the comments of the fans show that this artstyle alienates many of the fans. So, if for example the artstyle would've been showed at the very start of the development, then the developers could've listened to the fans and changed it. But everyone's in a tough spot now because development is nearly finished (game is plan…

Interesting, I absolutely loved the art style of Broken Age, it's original and distinctive in a way few games are. I guess you're right about that optimizing for the main stream tends to create relatively boring art. And it's also why I like the new art style too

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#256

Post by nicolas_t » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 10:54 AM UTC

saurik wrote: post #236

I know this feeling. In one case, I have/had a project this is used by a ton of people--it is even still used by a number of people today--and I finally just didn't enjoy sharing it with anyone anymore so I stopped working on it in public or making any new releases of it... I have put an incredible amount of work into it since the last public release, and I am really proud of where it went, but I have almost no inter…

Just wanted to chime in when I saw your username. I'm incredibly grateful for all the work you've done over the years with cydia, substrate and cycript.

I've always tended to be grateful but not necessarily think about leaving comments, over the years I'm starting to realise that it's important to offset negative entitled comments that always seem to come out of the woodwork.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#257

Post by hypertele-Xii » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 12:36 PM UTC

_nalply wrote: post #249

chrisco255 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"entitlement simulators" what? I'm sorry but how are Fortnite, Call of Duty, Elden Ring, Minecraft, etc entitlement simulators? That's really scraping the bottom of the barrel for a narrative there. Lol at "speedrunning" being an indicator of colonialism impulse. It's as if the author of that talk is looking at the world through entitlement tinted glasses, heavily steeped in anti-colonialism and postmodernism and can…

I usually don't play computer games. But I know Minecraft because my children play this game. To understand the game dynamics, I played Minecraft for a few days and watched Youtube videos and consumed other contents about the game. I am sure I don't know many subtleties and the Minecraft subculture, but this is not neccessary to understand what "entitlement simulator" means: I watched how my son casually killed a vil…

The whole point of video games is to get to do things you can't do in real life, and explore what kind of person you are through that experience.

When a video game presents you with a verb, a possible action you can perform, in this case to cause damage to what's in front of you, of course players will experiment what happens when they use that verb on pretty much everything.

Do you also experience moral panic when you erase a pencil drawing of a llama? That's what your son did. He erased a symbolic representation from the virtual canvas of his Minecraft world.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#258

Post by norwalkbear » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 1:39 PM UTC

musicale wrote: post #230

manmal wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many games for $80 only provide 6-10h of genuine entertainment. Playing them through multiple times often gets old quickly.

Many $20 movie tickets only provide 10-20 minutes of genuine entertainment. see: comedies whose only funny scenes/jokes are included in the trailer

Yea and people get super angry when that happens. You often see the exact comments Gilbert got there too.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#259

Post by norwalkbear » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 1:44 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #128

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: I used to feel the same way about the entitlement. Then I stopped and thought about how many "hours worked" the average game costs for a person on minimum wage. While the minimum wage has risen dramatically in my area, to at least $12/hr, with games costing upwards of $80 now, that's still almost 2 full days, after taxes. It's easy to forget when people on this board are probably all making at least low…

I don't think economics have anything measurable to do with this. I've seen entitled rants from gamers yelling at the developer while also publicly admitting that they pirated the game. People pay money for clothes and food too and you don't see them posting thirty-minute screeds on YouTube about how they don't like the pattern of this shirt they just got.

Yes they do, but maybe not on YouTube, since that's for older people. TikTok, Instagram, twitch, etc all target niche groups all have gamer like thinking but with less autism

Food screeds though are very different depending on gender. I've watched my husband be able to watch a streamer dissect "Mr beast" chocolate for 90 mins.

I just watch Instagram reviews, and they can get pretty mean spirited.

Re: “The joy of sharing has been driven from me“

#260

Post by pandaman » Sat, Jul 02, 2022, 4:56 PM UTC

munificent wrote: post #127

chomp wrote: post #14

Gamers are the most entitled consumer group I've ever seen. It's astounding. Someone wants to create something, and there's just so much hate and negativity on something that people didn't even pay for. I've seen it on HN also. Someone creates a thing, and then people pour out of the woodwork to lump horrible criticism. No one is asking for blind praise for what they create, but surely there's a middle ground between…

This is one of the main reasons I was happy to leave the game industry after eight years of doing it. Working incredibly hard to build a product served to a group of people that are often hurtful emotionally stunted man-children is just a deeply demoralizing experience. Obviously, many gamers aren't like that. But a fucking whole lot of them are, and they are extremely vocal, and it doesn't take many of them to suck…

20+ years in the industry. I think you are a little bit entitled. It does take a lot of effort to make even a crappy game, I have shipped my share of those myself. But the customer is not your elementary school teacher, who awards gold stars for the effort. The customer paid a ton of money (for HN readers $60 games might be cheap but they are not for the most people who buy games) for something he or she hoped to like and it turned to be something that had been shoved out... Imagine a fancy restaurant, with $$$$ menu where you order a confit de canard and get some undercooked chicken nuggets with ketchup? Will you ask if the chef having a bad day and how could you cheer him up?