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France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

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Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#291

Post by wumpus »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #103
tpmx wrote: post #13

It's getting ridiculous here in Sweden. Actual product names (they tend to use English, sometimes with intentional misspellings to get around regulations, I assume): "Vegan Grated Ch se" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_large_2x_v1,f_auto/731024... ) "Roast Beaf - Plant-based cold cut" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_large_2x_v1,f_auto/735003... ) "Parveggio - grated" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_lar…

Reminds me of one of my favorite King of the Hill episodes: "Not dogs" are hot dogs made of tofu Of course there is always "faux fu" for the tofu intolerant.

"Not dogs" is an actual product from 1982.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#292

Post by kennywinker »

cheese_goddess wrote: post #278
kennywinker wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think “real” is a bit of a problem there because if vegan cheese is real it means it’s really vegan. I think the analog you’re looking for would be “fake vegan cheese”, or to make it less double-negativey we could just say “dairy cheese” which would be a perfectly understandable modifier on cheese just like how “vegan cheese” is a perfectly understandable modifier. If vegan cheese is a problem i’d like to hear your…

> I think “real” is a bit of a problem there because if vegan cheese is real it means it’s really vegan. "Real vegan cheese" should not be a problem as long as you're selling a real product. The problems would begin if you were selling real cheese as " Really vegan cheese".

I don’t think the phrase “real vegan cheese” is linguistically clear in any way. Is the “real” about the “vegan” part, the “cheese” part, or the “vegan cheese” part? I.e. “real dog food” has nothing to do with the realness of the dogs, it’s about the “food”. But then in the sentence “real prada bag” the “real” is about the “prada” portion not about the “bag” portion. “Real” can modify either the modifier or the noun.

“Really” makes the sentence more clear, because it adds emphasis to the “vegan” modifier on “cheese” - it wouldn’t apply to the “cheese” part directly. I.e. in the sentence “really big cheese” the “really” is clearly adding emphasis to the “big”.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#294

Post by remuskaos »

tpmx wrote: post #13

It's getting ridiculous here in Sweden. Actual product names (they tend to use English, sometimes with intentional misspellings to get around regulations, I assume): "Vegan Grated Ch se" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_large_2x_v1,f_auto/731024... ) "Roast Beaf - Plant-based cold cut" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_large_2x_v1,f_auto/735003... ) "Parveggio - grated" ( https://assets.icanet.se/t_product_lar…

I'm vegetarian, and I'm offended. Mostly by that god awful Alegria-like prictogram on the first product packaging.

It's bad enough we have to see these hose-armed and hose-legged people pictograms from every tech company, but now they're on my food as well?

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#296

Post by wumpus »

Ekaros wrote: post #186
HermanMartinus wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is misleading in the effect is has. Omnivores still eat non-meat products, but the inverse isn't true and is in-fact pretty fucked up (if the person being deceived believes that eating beef is akin to eating dogs). I agree that products shouldn't be deceptive, but this is a false dichotomy. More accurately the example should be "Beef Burger", then have it written in small "(dog meat)" as (at least in the…

Both beef and canine meat are from mammals. There isn't really much difference between those. Ofc reasonable labelling is reasonable to expect. But they are still meat and nearly every human including vegans can perfectly well eat either. Same does not apply to companies that try to mislead people by calling something not meat meat or cheese or so on.

> nearly every human including vegans can perfectly well eat either.

If you haven't eaten meat for decades, you will probably become violently ill if you eat meat.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#297

Post by cheese_goddess »

nemo44x wrote: post #286
cheese_goddess wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copying from an earlier comment of mine, "American cheese" or "processed cheese" is often (but not always) a blend of materials none of which begins life as cheese: > Typical formulation for Analogue Pizza Cheese, from Fundamentals of Cheese Science: Ingredient Level added (g/100g Blend) Casein and caseinates 23.00 Vegetable oil 25.00 startch 2.00 Emulsifying salts 2.00 Flavour 2.00 Flavour enhancer 2.00 Acid regulat…

I make American cheese all the time. 90% of the ingredients are cheddar cheese. Lots of good burger joints do this too. But yes, there’s very bad versions as you’ve described. The main idea is to take a mild cheddar and tame it further while changing its texture and to make it melt nicely. This is why any other cheese on a hamburger is inferior.

Cheddar should already melt nicely. Maybe we're talking about different cheeses called "cheddar"? I've never had American cheddar, maybe it's different than the English kind?

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#298

Post by [deleted] »

kennywinker wrote: post #292
cheese_goddess wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think “real” is a bit of a problem there because if vegan cheese is real it means it’s really vegan. "Real vegan cheese" should not be a problem as long as you're selling a real product. The problems would begin if you were selling real cheese as " Really vegan cheese".

I don’t think the phrase “real vegan cheese” is linguistically clear in any way. Is the “real” about the “vegan” part, the “cheese” part, or the “vegan cheese” part? I.e. “real dog food” has nothing to do with the realness of the dogs, it’s about the “food”. But then in the sentence “real prada bag” the “real” is about the “prada” portion not about the “bag” portion. “Real” can modify either the modifier or the noun.…

[deleted]

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#299

Post by poulsbohemian »

ggm wrote: post #46
Nursie wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> British Sausages cause hilarity in Europe. Honestly I don't really see why. Yeah the really cheap ones have a lower meat content than other countries tend to use, but german bratwurst are often around 85%(ish) meat, and it's very easy to find British sausages which have that much or higher meat content. I think like many British food stereotypes, it's likely several decades past being factual, and probably has its…

I don't see why either. I like some cereal in my sausage, I think it adds to the texture, and moistness, and I like the mouth feel of a blend of ingredients, but the relative % of meat and non-meat, for legal compliance with "sausagehood" is at root the problem. More filler-and-binder than meat? thats wierd. But.. legal. Does it relate to rationing? I am sure it does. Remember the UK kept rationing to the 1950s and w…

I've got a friend in the UK who during covid decided to write a sort of allegory, sci-fy, children's story with heavy references to British culture - it's been one of the funniest things I've ever read. Anyway, in his story there is an "Isle of Fray Bentos" and he has a character named "Vesta Curry" so it makes me laugh to see it referenced here.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#300

Post by wumpus »

tvaughan wrote: post #219
hegelstoleit wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who the fuck is buying vegan meat and being like "oh I thought this was meat"? Do we seriously need to legislate that? There's no real victim here, it's just a bunch of people who are sour or feel threatened by meat alternatives. It's ridiculous.

> t's just a bunch of people who are sour or feel threatened by meat alternatives Kast, a right-wing populist politician in Chile, made a big stink during his failed presidential bid over "Not Milk." He said only milk from "happy cows" should be promoted. These so-called proponents of the free market sure do hate competition. https://www.cnnchile.com/pais/kast-critico-notmilk-necesitam...

Demonizing minorities, especially unpopular minorities, is not a good sign in a politician.
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