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Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Francisco

thelastdriverlicenseholder.com

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Re: Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Francisco

#71
post #45

There is currently some kind of geomagnetic storm which is causing a lot of GPS tracks to be offset over the past few days. It's all over the running/cycling forums. Could be related, here's an example: https://old.reddit.com/r/Garmin/comments/vo17e2/the_magnetic...

It is worth noting however that the size, power consumption and antenna precision of a watch-sized or bicycle computer size GPS(+glonass, Galileo, beidou, qzss) receiver is considerably smaller than what should be in these vehicles.

I have not seen any mention of GPS service degradation in hobbyist drone enthusiast groups over the last week, some of whom use quite small GPS modules with serial connection to the flight controller for automated signal lost return to home features and such.

Re: Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Francisco

#72

Any industry insiders know how Cruise is doing compared to Waymo and Zoox in SF? It seems Cruise is hyperfocused on SF.

Cruise's basic theory was that the best way to initially scale testing wasn't to build a bigger fleet, but instead to test in busier environments where long tail events are more frequent. There was still testing in a few other locales (primarily Arizona and Michigan), but a lot of the focus was on SF as a result.

Re: Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Francisco

#73
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities cannot easily be "redesigned". Infrastructure exists and you can't just refactor neighborhoods like software. Autonomous vehicles are an enormous market and well worth the investment.

Sometimes the market is not worth existing if it harms the planet. And most cities were actually designed for streetcar lines in the U.S., that includes all the big ones in California too. We just need to reengage that, and do simple things like give the existing bus networks signal preemption and their own lanes. Plus considering most car trips are under 5 miles and california has good weather, it makes no sense why…

Some cities even started out with a bunch of street-cars then tore out all the lines (for cars!) rather than expand existing rail - looking at you Seattle

Re: Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Francisco

#74
post #8

People may get annoyed at cruise for this, but imo it’s still not as bad as the constant blocking of bike lanes and stopping in the middle of the road by human ride share drivers.

Serious question: Do the police know how to ticket a robotaxi?

Related: can a tow truck operator safely impound one?

Re: Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Francisco

#75
post #54

Was there a referendum in SF on allowing this public beta of driverless cars to happen? Or was it decided by some “forward-thinking” officials? All seems premature if you ask me.

SF City County does not have authority to regulate self driving vehicles. Same issue with Uber, regulated by state.

Re: Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Francisco

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"all of this time and money wasted on driverless cars has been a complete failure." That's quite a stretch. If you think the money would be better spent elsewhere, ok. But to call it a failure is silly. Personally, I think driverless taxis making car ownership less necessary will be a huge plus. It will also make life a lot better for those due to age (too young or too old) or other issues not being able to drive. I…

>but to get away from that you need gradual steps Given that you bring up the space program in the same post I'll stick with the metaphor and point out that you can't go to the moon by climbing up trees, or as Russ Ackoff said, doing the wrong thing right is worse than doing the right thing wrong, because making the wrong thing more efficient just makes things worse. If you want fully automated, efficient transport t…

Trains and subways don't get you from anywhere to anywhere. They are incredibly expensive and take many years to add new lines, disrupting all kinds of things in the meantime. And they often take way longer to get you places. My time has value. There's a million things I'd rather be doing than waiting for a train, or waiting while a train makes tons of stops along the way that a car wouldn't.

And are you expecting me to carry bags of groceries on the train? How's that work? I sure hope the train has a stop in front of my house.

"With the tens of billions if not more spent on driverless cars you could have actually rebuilt a decent chunk of infrastructure."

According to this, it costs 3 billion a mile for subway. Maybe that's an extreme.... but still. You know how many miles of road there are that are currently used by cars? https://sf.curbed.com/2018/6/18/17464616/bay-area-subway-tra...

Also, one nice thing about software compared to trains: once you've built the software, each additional copy costs nothing. And the vast majority of the self-driving car initiative is in developing the software.

Also, trains don't help with avoiding things like making grocery runs altogether. Self driving cars (and other robotics that are benefactors of the technology) can make it practical to eliminate the vast majority of grocery shopping and other typical errands, having a robotic system deliver it to your door more cheaply than going to an old-school grocery store.

As for your space analogy.... sorry, but this is just different. This deals with existing infrastructure, existing culture, and so on. We need a smooth transition.

Re: Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Francisco

#77

It would be more efficient and safer to have wires buried beneath roads which show correct positioning and transmit info regarding which road it is, direction etc in case of gps position errors or failures

That would be great but the cars still need to work if the wires buried beneath the road aren't working, are placed incorrectly, are transmitting bad data, etc.

Re: Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Francisco

#78
post #10

all of this time and money wasted on driverless cars has been a complete failure. companies and cities should be investing their time into improving public transportation and designing our cities to be more walkable and make alternate modes of transportation more feasible. the US culture of using a car for everyday transportation is fucking insane, wasteful, and contributes to the rising cost of living across the US…

As someone in the autonomous driving industry, maybe I can contribute a different perspective. I totally agree that better designed cities would be superior. When I took the initiative to participate in my local government, I was screamed and cursed at for the most trivial improvements imaginable, like a shared bike lane on a few miles of a particularly dangerous street. Multiply that by the opposition to actual impr…

Not totally on topic, but what's your take on being able to roll out autonomous vehicles in places with more "fluid" driving habits? I've driven in some crazy environments in the past, but I just came back from a very large country (let's call it an eighth of the world's population) where I can't imagine renting a car and driving there because of the near complete disregard they have for official traffic rules. Obviously they're just following a different set of rules, because people don't just crash into each other, but in that situation do you program the car to follow government rules or local custom?

Re: Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Francisco

#79
post #45

There is currently some kind of geomagnetic storm which is causing a lot of GPS tracks to be offset over the past few days. It's all over the running/cycling forums. Could be related, here's an example: https://old.reddit.com/r/Garmin/comments/vo17e2/the_magnetic...

NOAA doesn't list any meaningful geomagnetic storms right now:

https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/communities/space-weather-enthusia...

But that aside, I'd really hope that these cars are using professional WAAS-capable GPS receivers. Short of a major X-class flare which knocks out the WAAS geostationary satellites, the entire point of the system is to correct for these kinds of disturbances to the GPS signals.

Re: Driverless robotaxi fleet paralyzed for hours in San Francisco

#80
post #8

People may get annoyed at cruise for this, but imo it’s still not as bad as the constant blocking of bike lanes and stopping in the middle of the road by human ride share drivers.

Serious question: Do the police know how to ticket a robotaxi?

At this point in time, I believe they cannot issue a moving violation to an autonomous car as it does not have a driver. The safety driver (if there is one), can be cited though.

See the autonomous vehicle guidelines used by the SFPD: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21970950/av-interacti...

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