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Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

latimes.com

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Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#91

Post by s0rce »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #82
s0rce wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that we should build desalination, even if we can "afford" it. There are agricultural users of water paying astronomically lower prices due to long standing water rights. It would almost certainly be cheaper to pay them to conserve (grow less of water-wasting crops, leave fields fallow, or upgrade to more efficient drip irrigation). The urban water use is around 20%, making them pay billions for this 20% m…

> leave fields fallow Please no. We're facing intense inflation, and the solution has to involve supply-side improvements, not just demand-side tweaks. Subsidies for drip irrigation sounds interesting, though - as long as actual water usage reduction is part of the requirement.

It might be objectively better to pay someone to not grow alfalfa for export to the middle east then it is to waste water on growing it. In the end, this is likely cheaper than building desalination infrastructure to make up for the wasted water so you save money. Don't think this is a good long term plan though.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#92

Post by AnimalMuppet »

Barrera wrote: post #9

> While some of what that means for California remains to be seen, parts of the process have already begun, including the steady decline of the Colorado River. Lake Mead, the nation’s largest reservoir which is located along that river, is now only 150 feet from dipping below its lowest intake valve, officials announced this month. How much time will it take for a 150-foot drop at current rates of loss? I haven't bee…

For back-of-the-envelope calculations, you could model a lake as an inverted pyramid. Each foot of higher surface results in more surface area, both north-south and east-west. So the surface area of the lake is quadratic in elevation above the lowest point, and the volume is cubic in elevation above the lowest point.

That's just back of the envelope. I'm sure there are geographical studies of Lake Mead that have accurate numbers.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#93

Post by s0rce »

thehappypm wrote: post #59
yellowapple wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that doesn't even begin to factor in the revenue opportunities from scaling up desalination further for export to neighboring states (most of which are even more arid than California). I've said it before and I'll say it again: California food and (desalinated) water in exchange for Nevada electricity (be it solar, geothermal, or nuclear) would mutually benefit both states and produce one hell of an economic jugg…

Pumping water from the California coast to Nevada is not a good idea. You’re basically describing a hydro plant, in reverse, carrying expensive water.

Not really much different than pumping Owen's valley water to LA...

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#94

Post by nomel »

beambot wrote: post #28

Quick Google stats: There are 13M households in California. Average household consumes 0.5-1.0 acre-feet of water per year. It costs $419 per acre-foot for desalination. California has a discretionary budget surplus of $49B. Thus: It would cost $2.7B-$5.4B per year to provide desalination-based water to all Californians. With the current budget surplus, we could provide 100% of California's living water needs for 10-…

> Average household consumes 0.5-1.0 acre-feet of water per year.

Out of curiosity, I did the math for grass lawns. Kentucky Bluegrass requires 1inch/week, meaning a 1000sqft lawn will required around 0.09 acre-feet/year.

My knee-jerk reaction was to ban lawns, but that seems misguided, assuming my math is correct.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#95

Post by cco »

odiroot wrote: post #61
beambot wrote: post #28

Quick Google stats: There are 13M households in California. Average household consumes 0.5-1.0 acre-feet of water per year. It costs $419 per acre-foot for desalination. California has a discretionary budget surplus of $49B. Thus: It would cost $2.7B-$5.4B per year to provide desalination-based water to all Californians. With the current budget surplus, we could provide 100% of California's living water needs for 10-…

> acre-feet Being European, that's the weirdest unit of volume, I've ever seen.

I mean c'mon, it's so simple. One acre is just one chain by one furlong, then you multiply that 12 inches and that's an acre foot.

Ok fine, that might be too complicated, an acre is merely however much land a single man and an oxen team could plough in a single day. Just take that value in your head and multiply it by the length of a medieval king's [citation needed] foot and there you go, acre-feet.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#96

Post by pempem »

M0r13n wrote: post #38

I am curios how much the excess consumption of water influences the low water levels. I do not get the feeling that the inhabitants of California are particularly saving any water. I guess that there is big potential to save water.

In LA watering of non-trees is down to 16min max a week? OFC beverly hills isnt complying but they are technically their own city

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#97

Post by marcosdumay »

draw_down wrote: post #14

I have a friend who grew up and has lived in socal for most of their life. When I mentioned the reporting on extreme drought for this year, they just responded “oh they say that every year”. So I wonder how reflective that is of the mentality of area residents, even if superficially it could appear otherwise.

I don't even live on the US, and I remember articles predicting aquifer lose and water shortages in California since I was a child.

The point is, those articles tend to come with date targets. The people saying "they always said it and it never happened" are either stupid ones that don't care about the "by 2030" right next to the prediction, or ones that get their news from the first group.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#98

Post by rr888 »

beambot wrote: post #28

Quick Google stats: There are 13M households in California. Average household consumes 0.5-1.0 acre-feet of water per year. It costs $419 per acre-foot for desalination. California has a discretionary budget surplus of $49B. Thus: It would cost $2.7B-$5.4B per year to provide desalination-based water to all Californians. With the current budget surplus, we could provide 100% of California's living water needs for 10-…

I feel there should more efficient to use solar heat into evaporating the ocean to make clouds and more rain. Anyone aware of this? I'm thinking windmills that pump water to create mist or floating black panels that absorb IR and heat water.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#99

Post by njarboe »

beambot wrote: post #28

Quick Google stats: There are 13M households in California. Average household consumes 0.5-1.0 acre-feet of water per year. It costs $419 per acre-foot for desalination. California has a discretionary budget surplus of $49B. Thus: It would cost $2.7B-$5.4B per year to provide desalination-based water to all Californians. With the current budget surplus, we could provide 100% of California's living water needs for 10-…

It is not politically possible to build desalination plants (or much of anything else really) in California. In just May of this year[1], a private company that had spent $100 million trying to get approval to build a $1.4 billion de-sal plant in the L.A. basin. It would have served about 400,000 homes but the permit was denied by regulators. Private money would build these plants if allowed.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/california-regulator-reject...

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#100

Post by irrational »

DoneWithAllThat wrote: post #12
agomez314 wrote: post #3

entire regions being deserted is not a new thing (see mayan civilization). it's possible we'll see the cities of southern California (San Diego, Los Angeles) as remnants of an ancient culture in a few hundred years, left intact by the scorching heat and desert.

Climate doomerism is some seriously fascinating stuff. Both of those places are far more temperate than hundreds of cities around the world.

Are or were? At least, the trend seems to be moving towards were more temperate.
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