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Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

latimes.com

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Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#41

Post by Victerius »

dntrkv wrote: post #31
Victerius wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state needs to start overruling the local NIMBYs and build the desal plants the rest of the state needs. And the regulators need to chill out: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/california-regulator-reject...

We don't need desal, we have plenty of water for people to live here. The vast majority of water goes to agriculture. If we were just a bit more selective in what we farmed, we could reduce our water usage by a significant amount.

"We have enough water, we just need to stop growing food and starve instead."

I mean, yes, but no. We could cut on beef, I agree with that, but then the electorate will be enraged at their expensive steaks.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#42

Post by idontwantthis »

d4mi3n wrote: post #16
kpopguru wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what about places like phoenix and Vegas?

Can't speak to Pheonix, but Las Vegas and the surrounding counties have a history of being very good about stewardship of their water supplies. There's a ton of documentaries on the topic if you go digging around the search engines or YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3z_z0Wsk-I

What about the disappearance of Lake Mead?

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#43

Post by nullc »

draw_down wrote: post #14

I have a friend who grew up and has lived in socal for most of their life. When I mentioned the reporting on extreme drought for this year, they just responded “oh they say that every year”. So I wonder how reflective that is of the mentality of area residents, even if superficially it could appear otherwise.

There is a tremendous amount of wolf crying-- particularly calling for straw-ban-grade ineffective residential water use reductions (esp as agriculture is 80% of the water use). Disbelief is the long term effect of all the crying wolf.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#44

Post by datavirtue »

jrd79 wrote: post #18

Modern technology makes it possible to build cities in arid environments, but it doesn't make it wise.

Modern tech also makes it possible to turn arid environments into forests. I would start there. When you do that water starts to collect/accumulate and the area gets cooler.

On 99° days of unbearable heat and sun I can stroll under trees and be nice and cool in the 70°s. I do it all the time.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#45

Post by yellowapple »

beambot wrote: post #28

Quick Google stats: There are 13M households in California. Average household consumes 0.5-1.0 acre-feet of water per year. It costs $419 per acre-foot for desalination. California has a discretionary budget surplus of $49B. Thus: It would cost $2.7B-$5.4B per year to provide desalination-based water to all Californians. With the current budget surplus, we could provide 100% of California's living water needs for 10-…

And that doesn't even begin to factor in the revenue opportunities from scaling up desalination further for export to neighboring states (most of which are even more arid than California).

I've said it before and I'll say it again: California food and (desalinated) water in exchange for Nevada electricity (be it solar, geothermal, or nuclear) would mutually benefit both states and produce one hell of an economic juggernaut.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#46

Post by dudus »

beambot wrote: post #28

Quick Google stats: There are 13M households in California. Average household consumes 0.5-1.0 acre-feet of water per year. It costs $419 per acre-foot for desalination. California has a discretionary budget surplus of $49B. Thus: It would cost $2.7B-$5.4B per year to provide desalination-based water to all Californians. With the current budget surplus, we could provide 100% of California's living water needs for 10-…

You have to budget in the water for the almond fields as well.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#47

Post by Fatnino »

Barrera wrote: post #9

> While some of what that means for California remains to be seen, parts of the process have already begun, including the steady decline of the Colorado River. Lake Mead, the nation’s largest reservoir which is located along that river, is now only 150 feet from dipping below its lowest intake valve, officials announced this month. How much time will it take for a 150-foot drop at current rates of loss? I haven't bee…

It's probable that the lake gets narrower the lower it is. Assuming a steady removal of n acre feet (a common measure of water volume in reservoirs), the rate at which the water level elevation drops will accelerate as less acreage of surface gets compensated for by more feet dropping.

Anecdotally, the water level is dropping fast enough that you come back 2 days later and it's plainly apparent to the eye without looking too closely. So its dropping some significant number of inches per day, and only accelerating.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#48

Post by kemiller »

wildmanx wrote: post #20
burlesona wrote: post #6

California is next to the ocean, so if we really wanted to secure the water supply we have technological answers available. Nuclear desalination has been used at scale across the globe for decades, and it's not hard to imagine a less centralized solution powered by solar or wind. https://www.iaea.org/topics/non-electric-applications/nuclea...

Oh the typical techie solution to environmental problems. We can solve this with tech! Wait until the aquifers under North America run dry. That's where most irrigation pump up their ground water from. A few dry rivers and smaller lakes are nothing compared to what's going to happen. Forget your desalination plants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aquifers_in_the_United... And it's entirely predictable. In fact…

It’s not a solution everything buts it’s a solution for domestic water. California ag interests are digging their own graves and I’m not sure what we can do about it.

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#49

Post by s0rce »

beambot wrote: post #28

Quick Google stats: There are 13M households in California. Average household consumes 0.5-1.0 acre-feet of water per year. It costs $419 per acre-foot for desalination. California has a discretionary budget surplus of $49B. Thus: It would cost $2.7B-$5.4B per year to provide desalination-based water to all Californians. With the current budget surplus, we could provide 100% of California's living water needs for 10-…

I disagree that we should build desalination, even if we can "afford" it. There are agricultural users of water paying astronomically lower prices due to long standing water rights. It would almost certainly be cheaper to pay them to conserve (grow less of water-wasting crops, leave fields fallow, or upgrade to more efficient drip irrigation). The urban water use is around 20%, making them pay billions for this 20% makes no sense when the majority of the remaining is wasted on inefficient agriculture.

If we actually had scarce water and agriculture could pay market rate for desalinated water along side residential consumers then we should build. I don't think there are there yet. Maybe soon...

Re: Extreme heat, drought will permanently scar California and its social fabric

#50

Post by mrexroad »

beambot wrote: post #28

Quick Google stats: There are 13M households in California. Average household consumes 0.5-1.0 acre-feet of water per year. It costs $419 per acre-foot for desalination. California has a discretionary budget surplus of $49B. Thus: It would cost $2.7B-$5.4B per year to provide desalination-based water to all Californians. With the current budget surplus, we could provide 100% of California's living water needs for 10-…

I admit I’m not familiar with current techniques for desalination at scale, but I’m curious what the energy requirements would be?
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