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Do mask mandates work? Bay Area Covid data from June says no

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Re: Do mask mandates work? Bay Area Covid data from June says no

#21

Post by bsder »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #20

I wonder how future generations will judge us. These last years have showed how weak little sheep we all are. The US has spent more in the last 2 years than our entire countries history, we are racked with debt and stuck in 30 different wars. & yet we are still discussing covid and abortion. We stopped working for TWO YEARS, made things that were proven to be false from the start, the norm and have somehow seem to ha…

Except that mask mandates aren't worthless. We have relatively controlled studies in other countries demonstrating where one area got masks and another area didn't that there was a fairly clear difference in transmission rate.

What are useless are mask mandates when you have a large cohort that simply won't comply or will anti-comply. Which is what we had in the US--both from political intransigence (Covid is a hoax) as well as general stupidity (Remember the police in CA having to break up a block party in the middle of Covid?) as well as general intransigence (Remember a handful of illegal gatherings being responsible for 80% of the Covid cases in California at the beginning? I do.).

This shouldn't have even needed to be a mandate. It should have been common sense. It should have been protecting your fellow man.

But, here, we are.

Re: Do mask mandates work? Bay Area Covid data from June says no

#22

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

bsder wrote: post #21
TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #20

I wonder how future generations will judge us. These last years have showed how weak little sheep we all are. The US has spent more in the last 2 years than our entire countries history, we are racked with debt and stuck in 30 different wars. & yet we are still discussing covid and abortion. We stopped working for TWO YEARS, made things that were proven to be false from the start, the norm and have somehow seem to ha…

Except that mask mandates aren't worthless. We have relatively controlled studies in other countries demonstrating where one area got masks and another area didn't that there was a fairly clear difference in transmission rate. What are useless are mask mandates when you have a large cohort that simply won't comply or will anti -comply. Which is what we had in the US--both from political intransigence (Covid is a hoax…

you're right, they weren't worthless. The lockdowns & mask mandates were extremely harmful.

More harm came from/ will come from the economic harships, seclusion, loss of status, community & immunity than covid ever posed.

>This shouldn't have even needed to be a mandate. It should have been common sense. It should have been protecting your fellow man.

You're right - That's what america was built on. We are land of the free & our social structure is created by the people for the people. Let social norms dictate your paternalism, not the government.

Re: Do mask mandates work? Bay Area Covid data from June says no

#23

Post by potbelly83 »

aeternum wrote: post #17
softwarebeware wrote: post #11

Just a couple things to note, which make this far from being a case against masking, or mask mandates: - The data is from one county in CA ... - ... for the time period June 3 - June 25, about 3 weeks - Neighboring counties did not have mask mandates at the time, meaning that anyone traveling between counties and not wearing their mask would have spread COVID-19 to Alameda County just as well as if no mask mandate ex…

>Neighboring counties did not have mask mandates at the time, meaning that anyone traveling between counties and not wearing their mask would have spread COVID-19 to Alameda County just as well as if no mask mandate existed So masking is not effective unless we also ban travel from non-mask mandated areas? This very point seems to confirm that masking mandates can't work unless implemented in conjunction with a stric…

Masking might not be effective on a population level, true, but on an individual level it may make a difference (wear N95, proper fit, etc etc ....) Still I agree, this does supply evidence against mandates.

Off topic but reminds me reading about how on a population level humans congregating in towns/cities was great, but terrible at an individual level (more diseases etc...)

Re: Do mask mandates work? Bay Area Covid data from June says no

#24

Post by josephcsible »

swayvil wrote: post #4

Wearing a mask lets everybody know that we are still in the midst of a very dangerous pandemic. It shows me that you take it seriously. It shows me who takes responsibility for the well-being of their fellow citizens and who doesn't. So even if it serves no practical purpose, it still serves a very important ritualistic purpose.

But giving the false impression that we're in the midst of a very dangerous pandemic is a bad thing.

Re: Do mask mandates work? Bay Area Covid data from June says no

#25

Post by GuB-42 »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #20

I wonder how future generations will judge us. These last years have showed how weak little sheep we all are. The US has spent more in the last 2 years than our entire countries history, we are racked with debt and stuck in 30 different wars. & yet we are still discussing covid and abortion. We stopped working for TWO YEARS, made things that were proven to be false from the start, the norm and have somehow seem to ha…

Going straight to the Godwin point, I see...

Nothing about covid was known from the start besides the structure of the virus. And while we made progress, there is still a lot we don't know, and we expect the unexpected.

Even if based on current research, you are right on some point (speaking generally), saying "I knew it, it was obvious all along" only shows that you don't understand science. You didn't, you took a guess and by chance, it was right. And your "onslaught of studies" is most likely cherry picked. Because mask mandates are a contentious issue, there are many studies going both ways. No matter the facts, it is an attitude worth "cancelling".

You can have opinions, I have my own, some turned out right, others did not, but they are just that.

But one thing to note: there are many countries in the world, all with different cultures, with a wide variety of covid strategies. Though some did better than others, none of them managed to keep covid at bay, all of them suffered in some way. If anything, at least in the beginning, dictatorships did better.

How future generation will judge us? The idiots will look down on us, the smart ones will see what we did right, and what we did wrong, both will be precious knowledge that will help them make better decisions.

Re: Do mask mandates work? Bay Area Covid data from June says no

#26

Post by swayvil »

tomohawk wrote: post #16
swayvil wrote: post #4

Wearing a mask lets everybody know that we are still in the midst of a very dangerous pandemic. It shows me that you take it seriously. It shows me who takes responsibility for the well-being of their fellow citizens and who doesn't. So even if it serves no practical purpose, it still serves a very important ritualistic purpose.

Wearing a mask lets everyone know what team you're on. This allows people to disrespect others with an easily visible item. It also allows the powers that be to think they are in control and doing something useful.

I think that the powers that be are more interested in convincing us that they are in control and doing something useful.

Re: Do mask mandates work? Bay Area Covid data from June says no

#27

Post by wrp »

It will help to keep this kind of news in perspective if you remember that mask mandate studies are very blunt instruments. You identify (preferably large) communities experiencing an outbreak, some with and some without mask mandates, then compare contagion rates. We have over a century of this kind research and the results are very consistent that mask mandates make no overall difference. However, more focused research appears to support that masking does have some positive effect in situations of close contact and limited ventilation. This topic has been done to death over the past couple years, and you can find references in previous HN threads.

Re: Do mask mandates work? Bay Area Covid data from June says no

#28

Post by josephcsible »

wrp wrote: post #27

It will help to keep this kind of news in perspective if you remember that mask mandate studies are very blunt instruments. You identify (preferably large) communities experiencing an outbreak, some with and some without mask mandates, then compare contagion rates. We have over a century of this kind research and the results are very consistent that mask mandates make no overall difference. However, more focused rese…

If mask mandates make no overall difference, but help in some cases, doesn't that imply that they must cause harm in some other cases?

Re: Do mask mandates work? Bay Area Covid data from June says no

#30

Post by junofan »

GuB-42 wrote: post #25
TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #20

I wonder how future generations will judge us. These last years have showed how weak little sheep we all are. The US has spent more in the last 2 years than our entire countries history, we are racked with debt and stuck in 30 different wars. & yet we are still discussing covid and abortion. We stopped working for TWO YEARS, made things that were proven to be false from the start, the norm and have somehow seem to ha…

Going straight to the Godwin point, I see... Nothing about covid was known from the start besides the structure of the virus. And while we made progress, there is still a lot we don't know, and we expect the unexpected. Even if based on current research, you are right on some point (speaking generally), saying "I knew it, it was obvious all along" only shows that you don't understand science. You didn't, you took a g…

Anyone who’s worked professionally with our nation’s healthcare apparatus will have prior opinions about those at the top.

I haven’t had to change my priors. Wouldn’t call that a “guess” by “chance.”

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