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Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

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Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#81

Quoted post unavailable.

Deno is a TS runtime. Deno Deploy is a place on which to deploy a Deno project. Fresh is a framework with which to write web apps on Deno, which then can be deployed to Deno Deploy.

Your question seemingly conflates these three things and adds unrelated elements.

To answer what you might be asking: TS is a nice language and Deno offers excellent tooling, Deno Deploy is easier to use than AWS and Fresh makes it easy to write web apps in a React-ish manner.

Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#83
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 100ms added latency can cost you 7-8% in conversions i hear this metric (or something equally absurd) cited frequently and have never seen it to be true in my own experience. i guess if you have to load a product page with 100 images (or assets) and each has 100ms network latency, then it will add up to much more than that. but 100ms for a single interaction or network request (e.g. process payment POST) is not goi…

I think if frame it as, “each 100ms you shave off a critical consumer shopping checkout flow page increases conversions by X%” it starts to seem more defensible. Agreed that in the general case 100ms to full paint (with interactivity not far behind) is really good.

Doesn't really matter if the relationship isn't linear like that. I suspect it's more likely conversions start to drop off after certain thresholds are met e.g. 3 seconds causes conversions to drop by 5%, 20 seconds causes them to drop by 30%.

Just averaging out those numbers could result in engineering time being wasted chasing rapidly diminishing returns, if the site is already below one of those thresholds.

Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#84
post #51

Am I the only one that think nowadays anything can be called "full stack"? For me "full stack" is something like Rails, Laravel, Django, etc. Or is it just being able to run code on the server enough to be "full stack"? I'm missing the translations system, the validations, the background jobs, the authentication system, authorization helpers, email sending, ORM or data access layer, testing framework, CSRF and relate…

I thought full stack means going all the way down to tuning the database, the kernel, building your own CI/CD, and performing your own deployment and scaling.

In practice, I've seen it used to describe someone who is fluent on the backend (DBs, APIs, DevOps, etc.) and competent on the frontend (React). But that could be more of a product of the talent pool, I think there are more backend engineers who dabble in the frontend (maybe because that's where the perceived party is?) than the other way around.

Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#85
post #78

Am I the only one that think nowadays anything can be called "full stack"? For me "full stack" is something like Rails, Laravel, Django, etc. Or is it just being able to run code on the server enough to be "full stack"? I'm missing the translations system, the validations, the background jobs, the authentication system, authorization helpers, email sending, ORM or data access layer, testing framework, CSRF and relate…

> For me "full stack" is something like Rails, Laravel, Django, etc. Rails, Laravel, or Django are completely agnostic about the frontend side of the full stack though :-) Well, maybe Rails will have an opinion about Stimulus; but this fresh thing continues the journey after the response has reached the client.

Now with Turbo, Rails is very opinionated about the frontend side. Which is a great thing.

My productivity with Rails 7 and Turbo has never been higher.

Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#86
post #63
post #4

I really like the idea of Deno and Fresh's philosophy also resonates with me (I'm a Rails guy). I would like to see an integrated ORM (can be an existing one) and testing framework though, before I would consider it a "full-stack" web framework.

The JS ecosystem seems a lot more hesitant to bundle features into frameworks à la Rails/Laravel & friends, but Redwood.js sounds like what you're looking for. The ORM it uses is Prisma, which works really well on its own too. https://redwoodjs.com https://www.prisma.io

If you want to learn about Redwood, I'd also recommend Amy's talk about it from Prisma Day two weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zJ44wmo1Ro&ab_channel=Prism... :)

Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#87

Am I the only one that think nowadays anything can be called "full stack"? For me "full stack" is something like Rails, Laravel, Django, etc. Or is it just being able to run code on the server enough to be "full stack"? I'm missing the translations system, the validations, the background jobs, the authentication system, authorization helpers, email sending, ORM or data access layer, testing framework, CSRF and relate…

I've always taken full-stack to refer to integration across all layers, versus saying anything about how featureful those layers are.

Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#89
post #63
post #4

I really like the idea of Deno and Fresh's philosophy also resonates with me (I'm a Rails guy). I would like to see an integrated ORM (can be an existing one) and testing framework though, before I would consider it a "full-stack" web framework.

The JS ecosystem seems a lot more hesitant to bundle features into frameworks à la Rails/Laravel & friends, but Redwood.js sounds like what you're looking for. The ORM it uses is Prisma, which works really well on its own too. https://redwoodjs.com https://www.prisma.io

Redwood and Prisma look nice! But what I like more is a focus on serverside rendering and as few build steps as possible, like Fresh. I also find Deno more appealing than Node (simplicity).

But yes, I guess if I would need to pick a more mature framework with JS, Redwood would be the way to go.

Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno

#90

React is here to stay and will have jquery like longevity. Sure, performance wise, it isn't the best, but performance isn't an end all be all. What separates react from the rest of the group is the maturity of React Native. If Discord is betting on React Native, so too can it be used for a lion's share of applications out there. When you're a startup deciding between technologies, usually you're a 1-5 man shop. If yo…

Interesting. My company (small startup) went with flutter and vuejs and now we're switching to nextjs for all of our web apps and we're loving using it.

Flutter is awesome for mobile dev. For web? Not so much.

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