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Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
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Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#42[deleted]
Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#43How does this compare against Astro: https://astro.build/ ?
Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
> server-side rendering for each request in V8 might be more expensive to host than client side rendering in V8? Expensive not in money terms, but in user experience. Also: if you are doing e-commerce, 100ms added latency can cost you 7-8% in conversions. Spending 5% more on hosting to do SSR just makes economic sense.
> 100ms added latency can cost you 7-8% in conversions i hear this metric (or something equally absurd) cited frequently and have never seen it to be true in my own experience. i guess if you have to load a product page with 100 images (or assets) and each has 100ms network latency, then it will add up to much more than that. but 100ms for a single interaction or network request (e.g. process payment POST) is not goi…
Yeah I think the main thing for a website to hold on to users it should at least be interactive and responsive quickly (with clear loading indicators) even if it is taking a while to load everything on the page. If a page looks like it is stuck or feels like it is stuck then I am likely to abandon it. But if it has clear indicators and animations to indicate something is happening, I will be more patient with it.
Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would assume the idea is that this is native to the deno runtime whereas some other frameworks like NextJS and Remix are "node native?"
Isn't DENO just AWS Lambda@Edge but you can't use anything other than JS/TS? edit: whoa whats with these downvotes? and im being accused of being a troll for asking a legitimate question? I am trying to evaluate this and my comments are being flagged for no reason Dang This is the second or third time just asking innocent questions on a YC linked company resulted in mass downvotes and flagging.
Deno is an open-source javascript runtime similar to node.js.
You're talking about "Deno Deploy", which is a commercial service based on Deno and by the same company that maintains Deno.
Your comment will look rather nonsensical to somebody who is only familiar with the runtime.
Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#46Does this work like how remixjs and nextjs(with the next RFC[0]) with react server components[1]? [0] https://nextjs.org/blog/layouts-rfc [1] https://reactjs.org/blog/2020/12/21/data-fetching-with-react...
Not exactly, because this example from Deno is using Preact, a stripped down React-like framework. Server Components relies on React fiber and the latest async features in newest version of React. They do both aim to limit the JS sent down the wire though.
Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#47> But client-side rendering is expensive; the framework often will ship hundreds of kilobytes of client-side JavaScript to users on each request. These JS bundles often do little more than rendering static content that could just as well have been served as plain HTML. server-side rendering for each request in V8 might be more expensive to host than client side rendering in V8? for a properly-chunked app, hopefully m…
The cost of server-side rendering feels pretty trivial to me these days. Fly.io will sell you a 256MB of RAM container for $1.94/month, which is perfectly capable of server-side rendering dozens (maybe even hundreds if you write efficient code) of requests per second. I'm sure you can get even better deals if you shop around.
Is that kind of a container less capable than just about any client (except embedded of course)? Sorry if it's a stupid question. I'm not familiar with web SSR.
Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't DENO just AWS Lambda@Edge but you can't use anything other than JS/TS? edit: whoa whats with these downvotes? and im being accused of being a troll for asking a legitimate question? I am trying to evaluate this and my comments are being flagged for no reason Dang This is the second or third time just asking innocent questions on a YC linked company resulted in mass downvotes and flagging.
Deno is an open-source javascript runtime similar to node.js. You're talking about "Deno Deploy", which is a commercial service based on Deno and by the same company that maintains Deno. Your comment will look rather nonsensical to somebody who is only familiar with the runtime.
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Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Node/JS solutions typically don't come "batteries included." "Fullstack" means different things depending on the ecosystem and for Node devs it means "hey there's a solution for the front-end and back-end." Totally understand about Django, Laravel etc. but typically if I'm building in Node/JS I'm pulling all of that extra stuff in from npm piecing it together myself.
Yeah, I do the same. Most of what I do is Next.js + a good bunch of npm packages to get the "full stack". But I wouldn't call Next.js full stack because it can do SSR, or even API routes. But again, that's just me confused about what is "full stack".
Yeah - I really hate the term "full stack" as it can really mean vastly stuff in different contexts, between different companies, hell - even in leading teams I feel like I have to nail down what "full stack" means between the members.
> But again, that's just me confused about what is "full stack"
Me too because it's grown into an amorphous definition =/
Re: Fresh is a new full stack web framework for Deno
#50For those websites that can use it (like a blog), it seems like static site generation would be better, to cache the database requests? Then you can run in the free tier of Netlify or using GitHub pages, for example.
Or to do the opposite, for a single-player website where there aren't any server requests to cache, a client-only website can run offline.
Fresh looks good for multi-player websites that are unavoidably making database requests interactively, though.