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Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

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Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#501

Post by [deleted] »

irae wrote: post #482
gunapologist99 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is using anti-competitive methods but its far far away from market domination. Apple Safari has, literally, 100% marketshare across the entire iPhone market. Its App Store also has 100% marketshare and enforces the Safari marketshare. I have an iPhone 13 Pro Max. I love the hardware, but I'd love to install other browsers; why can't I? I'd also love to run real PWA's or run WebRTC without major issues. Why sh…

For all your criticisms against Safari you still bought the most expensive phone on their lineup. So I guess they got so many other things right so you apparently still believe they ship the best phone out there. I used to wish for Firefox on my iPhone too. But after a while I got skeptical this would benefit me or other users. Apple was the one to make the hard decision to kill Flash, and Firefox is known to have do…

[deleted]

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#502

Post by idle_zealot »

asdff wrote: post #466
TheDong wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an attacker has a way to escape the browser javascript sandbox on webkit and also has an iOS app sandbox exploit, that right now will pwn any iOS user who clicks a malicious link. If I can run firefox instead, and that javascript sandbox exploit was already patched in firefox, the iOS app sandbox escape won't do them any good. They can't get through the earlier layer to exploit it. The claims being made here is th…

That's one stance on security but its so baffling that there are two Apple's here. There is the apple that gives you the ropes on macos to install your own software and run unsigned code, knowing that this doesn't lead to macos users regularly being pwned or the world burning down or anything like that today. And there is also the apple that thinks that letting you do this same thing on a much less consequential devi…

> letting you do this same thing on a much less consequential device than your home computer, your cellphone or your tablet

Last I heard then officially defend this apparent contradiction, the Apple rep asserted that people's phones are in fact the more important/personal devices, as well as being more common, and as such security on iOS is more important than on macOS.

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#503

Post by gunapologist99 »

irae wrote: post #482
gunapologist99 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is using anti-competitive methods but its far far away from market domination. Apple Safari has, literally, 100% marketshare across the entire iPhone market. Its App Store also has 100% marketshare and enforces the Safari marketshare. I have an iPhone 13 Pro Max. I love the hardware, but I'd love to install other browsers; why can't I? I'd also love to run real PWA's or run WebRTC without major issues. Why sh…

For all your criticisms against Safari you still bought the most expensive phone on their lineup. So I guess they got so many other things right so you apparently still believe they ship the best phone out there. I used to wish for Firefox on my iPhone too. But after a while I got skeptical this would benefit me or other users. Apple was the one to make the hard decision to kill Flash, and Firefox is known to have do…

Well, I actually don't consider it the best phone to buy; I consider it among the best hardware. I think a Google Pixel is a much nicer and more comfortable phone, although the iPhone has a far better screen and is a lot prettier, although its shape is uncomfortable to hold, even with a nice Otterbox.

I'm running GrapheneOS on the Pixel. It is perhaps ironic that the best phone to de-Google is actually a Google, and that Google both allows this and explicitly supports it, but it's not possible to de-Apple any iPhone.

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#504

Post by adesanmi »

> Note that this graph doesn't even include the time it takes the user to update the OS since Safari updates are tied to the operating system (an antiquated practice).

Is this true? I could have I sworn I’ve updated Safari many times without needing to update macOS.

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#505

Post by antifa »

briffle wrote: post #242
fartcannon wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use Firefox on both desktop and mobile and sync it all. At least if your mobile is Android or Linux. And you can use ublock origin, too!

you can sync your bookmarks and tabs with the IOS version of firefox too, but no extensions.

I'm OK with extensions not syncing, I'm just thankful Firefox for Android exists and has extensions.

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#506

Post by antifa »

afiori wrote: post #370
tshaddox wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, this denies me from using an actual Mozilla Firefox web browser on iOS. At the same time, most desktop computer users are able to use Firefox and we can see how often they choose to do so.

Also since Firefox for android removed one of its distinctive features a few years ago; once you could set it to ask how to open a link (send to another device, share, copy to clipboard, open normally) when an app tried to start a browser; now you can no longer do that. I use different browsers for different things so I want to chose how to open external app links. I would install a shim browser that does just that i…

I'm not sure if it will do everything you need, but I've had great experiences with "Open Link With" on f-droid.

https://f-droid.org/packages/com.tasomaniac.openwith.floss/

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#507

Post by moistly »

echelon wrote: post #389
labcomputer wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a user the harms are invisible to you. Why would you post a document refuting your own point? I explicitly do. not. want. my web browser to have access to the bluetooth and NFC APIs. Nor the screen orientation lock and full screen APIs. I absolutely do not want website notifications. I don't know how to be more explicit. Those are things developers want. Those are not things users want. And no amount of gaslight…

In the world you're describing, the future of technology is owned by Apple and Google forever. They got there first, and they'll forever be the victors. They can tax it. They can starve the entire landscape of innovation capital and prevent other companies from ever growing large. They set the rules, and they have enough human and financial capital to keep the game going forever. That's not good for capitalism, the f…

> That's not good for capitalism, the free market, entrepreneurs, or innovation

Google Play puts $50 billion into devs’ pockets, and Apple App Store delivers another $85 billion. Mobile gaming puts another

“Overall independent app developers’ average monthly revenue is $1,500, medium-size company developers make $7,500 a month and large studios developers teams generate on average $44,000 monthly.”

Seems like capitalism is hale and healthy in this duopoly.

https://www.businessofapps.com/app-developers/research/ios-a...

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#508

Post by simondotau »

stale2002 wrote: post #485
simondotau wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But sure, instead of having phone manufacturers compete with open competition in an open marketplace, let's have governments decide how my phone works. That sounds like a great idea. (Note: that is sarcasm.) I wonder, is the EU promising to replace Apple's effective private regulatory environment around privacy control with something its equal or better? Given that "open markets" in software isn't a concept that resp…

The point being, that in a situation where there is a 2 company duopoly, with multi trillion dollar companies, then there is going to be laws that regulate these multi trillion dollar companies that have significant market power. > compete with open competition They can compete all they want. They simply can't use their market power to anti competitively prevent users from installing other app stores or browsers, of…

> It is actually the user who will now be free to decide

The user will be free to decide? Really? The user, most of whom are understandably ignorant to and/or disinterested in the nuances of privacy and tracking, won't remain captive to decisions implemented by programmers, hidden in code, concealed behind encryption and not exposed as a choice?

Free to decide. I can't fathom that anyone actually might seriously believe this overly simplistic fairytale. This kind of freedom doesn't exist and the kind of rules the EU plans to implement don't change that. All they do is shuffle around influence from one set of global billion-dollar companies to another set of global billion-dollar companies.

Or are you telling me that the EU will require mobile operating systems, app stores on those operating systems and all third party apps running on those operating systems to give users absolute freedom to control all aspects of how their privacy is handled?

At least now we have Apple in a position to (and motivated to) enforce privacy standards on behalf of its ecosystem. It's not often that capitalistic forces are so squarely focused at the consumer interest; dismiss it at our collective peril.

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#509

Post by slategruen »

The answer's pretty obvious: Apple just like dumbing down their devices and people would still flock to their products because buyers are inherently stupid. Apple users seem to follow this mindset that just because they paid a premium price for their phones, it's a more solid and secure product (it is not). My mother has an iPhone and you'd be surprised how she'll assume it's a better phone even though she doesn't even know what half of the buttons in the Control Center does. The same goes for browsers in iOS. Most users would just outright defend Apple for their actions because it aligns with their beliefs that it is a better security model and has better UX (of course in a layman's jargon). When you ask them how is that so, most of them couldn't point out how they got to that conclusion.

Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security

#510

Post by dmitriid »

postalrat wrote: post #330
dmitriid wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is my primary browser day in day out. The only pages that don't work in it are developed by people who believe that Chrome-only APIs are standard.

Like web push. Supported in both chrome and firefox for ages. But apple not interested because it can replace apps with web pages.

Yup. When you ask people "what exactly so horrible about Safari", WebPush is inevitably the number one thing, followed by a bunch of Chrome non-standards like hardware APIs.

Truly, truly a horrible browser that is impossible to use (even though I've been using it for over 10 years now)

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