Earlier quoted context omitted.
Safari supports everything in PWA (which is a non-existent thing, but a dozen standards in a trenchcoat) except notifications. By "compatibility" you mean "support all of the Chrome's no n-standards it pushes at breaking speed"?
> except notifications. Which is THE single selling points that brings everyone to make 2 native apps instead of one URL. It hs been available on Android for a decade, and is still undetermined when it will actually land in iOS.
Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
381–390 of 593 posts
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The most natural implementation of the EU directive would be to have a place in User Settings where users can go and enable targeted advertising if they want it. And why would we assume that these companies would follow the "most natural implementation"? The very predictable response of the industry to the EU directive was to make the cookie banners as annoying as invasive as possible, such that users would consent…
The cookie banners are still a net good: they make bad sites harder to read, turning people away from some of the worst examples. They at least give you some measure of control, or legal standing, or at least visibility into how bad the web actually is.
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Safari is the new IE, there is a difference between a monopoly while still being able to use a competing product (like chrome in other platfroms), and forcing Safari(WebKit) while hindering the web because of Apples interests.(2-3) Ehm. Chrome is the new IE. Apple is using anti-competitive methods but its far far away from market domination. Microsoft is doing even more, by pushing so much Edge-only stuff. On iOS A…
> Apple is using anti-competitive methods but its far far away from market domination. Apple Safari has, literally, 100% marketshare across the entire iPhone market. Its App Store also has 100% marketshare and enforces the Safari marketshare. I have an iPhone 13 Pro Max. I love the hardware, but I'd love to install other browsers; why can't I? I'd also love to run real PWA's or run WebRTC without major issues. Why sh…
There's no such market as devices of a single manufacturer.
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
> On the other hand, this denies me from using an actual Mozilla Firefox web browser on iOS. At the same time, most desktop computer users are able to use Firefox and we can see how often they choose to do so.
Also since Firefox for android removed one of its distinctive features a few years ago; once you could set it to ask how to open a link (send to another device, share, copy to clipboard, open normally) when an app tried to start a browser; now you can no longer do that. I use different browsers for different things so I want to chose how to open external app links. I would install a shim browser that does just that i…
https://github.com/TrianguloY/UrlChecker
It also integrates ClearURLs functionality (https://gitlab.com/KevinRoebert/ClearUrls) to let you remove tracking from links before sending it to the browser or app. This feature is optional.
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
Often times idealic and well-intentioned measure have negative consequences. Just look at how the EU's cookie banners have eroded the UX of the open web as an example.
It's not the "EU's cookie banners", it is the advertisers' cookie banners. The EU doesn't mandate cookie banners at all. It's the website's choice whether to pester users about having them accept targetting cookies. The most natural implementation of the EU directive would be to have a place in User Settings where users can go and enable targeted advertising if they want it.
It's the EU's cookie banners. Despite the EU's best intentions, the end result is worse. It was a naive move and we're all suffering for it. One of the biggest pieces of evidence that you can't just naively mandate something without also thinking through edge cases and "malicious compliance."
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#386I’m going to ignore the security angle and post my big fear. Chrome has dominance similar to IE at the height of its popularity. Whatever you think of their decisions, Apple is the only thing stopping a 90%+ Chrome web. (Note: not why they’re doing it, just a side effect) People keep arguing Apple is being anti-competitive. But no one seems to recon with the possible consequences of what they’re asking for. And I fea…
I also think that Apple is doing a good thing here. Since I don't use any Apple devices, I also don't have any trouble with it personally :) (I'm doing my part by using Firefox.)
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
> most desktop computer users are able to use Firefox Desktop-using software engineers can write software for desktop users in a ton of different ways. There's so much freedom and there exist multiple mechanisms and platforms to deploy your code. Desktop-using software engineers are not free to choose how to deploy software to mobile audiences. They've got to go through Apple to reach 50+% of the US market. Apple set…
Apple/iOS is not the only mobile platform.
They both need to be stripped of their extraordinary powers so that user freedom and proper capitalistic competition can be restored.
It's likely that any regulatory action taken against Apple and Google will force the companies to innovate more and become healthier themselves.
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
Self-own to spite Google. Apple should protect users by competing, not by guarding their monopoly power. Everybody loves Apple now, wait until they inevitably miss earnings and you're locked in their prison. It's a turnkey malevolent dictatorship.
“The guy with the one tank should compete fairly with the entire military force of a continent. If they’re in the right they will win.”
Apple's market cap is ~$2,300,000,000,000 and it's not a war.
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a user the harms are invisible to you. If you'd like to find out how it harms consumers, businesses, developers and the web, please read our regulatory submission "Bringing Competition to Walled Gardens": https://open-web-advocacy.org/files/OWA%20-%20Bringing%20Com...
> As a user the harms are invisible to you. Why would you post a document refuting your own point? I explicitly do. not. want. my web browser to have access to the bluetooth and NFC APIs. Nor the screen orientation lock and full screen APIs. I absolutely do not want website notifications. I don't know how to be more explicit. Those are things developers want. Those are not things users want. And no amount of gaslight…
They can tax it. They can starve the entire landscape of innovation capital and prevent other companies from ever growing large. They set the rules, and they have enough human and financial capital to keep the game going forever.
That's not good for capitalism, the free market, entrepreneurs, or innovation. In the ten years since smartphones came about, we've seen a contraction of other forms of computing. A contraction in the number of smartphone manufacturers, too! The world is worse for it.
This type of duopolistic advantage also creates a system where Apple and Google can grow close to governments and become a surveillance and control apparatus. That's scarier than anything a developer could do to slight you.
The status quo is great for Apple and Google shareholders, but bad for those trying to innovate and those wanting personal freedom and privacy.
Almost all of computing connects to these two companies now, and that's a fragility that benefits these two giants to the rest of our detriment.
> I explicitly do. not. want. my web browser to have access to the bluetooth and NFC APIs. Nor the screen orientation lock and full screen APIs. I absolutely do not want website notifications.
Easy enough to turn all of these things off. You're describing a setting.
Re: Apple's claim is that it bans other browsers for security
#390Earlier quoted context omitted.
Man, I use Firefox for Christ sake. You don't have to be anti open web to know letting anti-competitive behaviour run rampant is even worse than having the open web that we have today. Your perspective is as insane to me as mine is to you. Don't let a corporation make decisions about your computing freedom for you. Anti-competitive behaviour from both sides is why we're in this situation (Apple/Safari/Chrome) to begi…
Do you know why Safari and Chrome exist? Safari was created so Apple wouldn’t be totally dependent on MS for a web browser. They’ve been in that situation many times before (and since). Apple is allergic to depending on someone else for something really important. Why does Chrome exist? Same reason. Google didn’t want to depend on being at the whims of Microsoft. They wanted to ensure they would have a browser that w…
Don't underestimate the inertia of defaults. Safari will still be the default browser.
A way more likely scenario is that Apple no longer will be able to drag their feet, holding the web back, but instead will actually have to keep Safari up to date and competetive with other browsers.