NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes? • Hacker News Board

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#41

Post by whimsicalism » Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

Der_Einzige wrote: post #38

Agamus wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing we should be doing is supporting critical thinking at the high school and university level. Unfortunately, it seems we have been dedicated to the opposite of this for about 50 years, at least in the US.

Critical thinking is the most overrated skill ever. "Critical theorists" are the people who fetishize "critical thinking" and all it got them was to embrace cultural Marxism. Constructive thinking is far better than learning how to shit on people, as the skill of critique teaches us...

This is reasoning by word chaining.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#42

Post by natly » Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

I was initially annoyed by this title but now I'm gonna switch my perspective to being happy that ideas like this are floating around since it acts as a really cheap signal to tell if someone knows what they're talking about or not when it comes to ML.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#43

Post by thedorkknight » Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 4:03 PM UTC

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

I don't think it'll be way too much different than it has been for most of human history. We really only had a brief blip of having video, which was generally trustable, but keep in mind that before that for thousands of years it was just as hard to know truth.

Someone told you stuff about the outside world, and you either had the skepticism to take it with a grain of salt, or you didn't.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#44

Post by mc32 » Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 4:04 PM UTC

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

I think a bigger question is whether reputable sources --those people trust for whatever reason, would use this technology to prop up ideas and or to create narratives.

I don't think it's far-fetched. We've already seen where videos are misattributed[1] to stoke fear or to promote narratives --by widely trusted news sources.

[1] This was foreshadowed with "Wag the Dog" but happens often enough in the media today that I don't think use of "deepfake" technology is beyond the pale for any of them.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#45

Post by wongarsu » Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 4:07 PM UTC

fxtentacle wrote: post #16

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

I believe we'll go back to trusting local experts that you can meet in person to confirm that they are not a bot. Because anything online will be known to be untrustworthy. Most blogs, chat groups and social media posts will be spam bots. And it'll be impossible for the average person to tell the difference between chatting with a bot and chatting with a human. But humans crave social connections and intimate physica…

I'm not sure the experts have to be local. I can't be sure that a random twitter account isn't a bot, but I can be pretty sure that tweets from @nasa are reasonably trustworthy. People will form webs-of-trust: they trust one source, the people viewed as trustworthy by them, etc. Anyone outside of that will be untrustworthy.

That's not too dissimilar from what we do today, after all people have always been able to lie. The problem is just that if you start trusting one wrong person this quickly sucks you into a world of misinformation.

I find your point about regulating AI interesting. We already see some of this, with good recommendation systems being harmful to vulnerable people (and to a lesser degree most of us). This will probably explode once we get chatbots that can provide a strong personal connection, replacing real human relationships for people.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#46

Post by ketralnis » Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 4:10 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #44

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

I think a bigger question is whether reputable sources --those people trust for whatever reason, would use this technology to prop up ideas and or to create narratives. I don't think it's far-fetched. We've already seen where videos are misattributed[1] to stoke fear or to promote narratives --by widely trusted news sources. [1] This was foreshadowed with "Wag the Dog" but happens often enough in the media today that…

It almost doesn't matter now that people have fractured on which sources they consider reputable. Trump called a CNN reporter "fake news" and presumably his followers think of them the same way I think of Fox. I absolutely think that Fox would use technology to lie, and I'm sure Fox fans think that "the liberal media" would. So people are going to think that reporting is fake whether or not it is

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#47

Post by adhesive_wombat » Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 4:11 PM UTC

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

A skeptic (i.e. someone who cares to verify) not being able to trust media because it might be fake is only a minor problem as long as you have at least one trusted channel.

The president, say, can just release the statement on that channel and it can be verified there (including cryptographically, say by signing the file or even using HTTPS).

If you lose that channel, then you're pretty much screwed because you'll never know which one is the real president. But there are physical access controls on some channels, say the Emergency Alert System, which can be used to bootstrap a trust chain.

What will be much more possible is that someone who will not check the veracity of the message will take it at face value without bothering to validate it. This is your news-via-Facebook crowd.

At that point, it's less a technical issue than simply people don't want to know the truth. No amount of fact-checking and secure tamper-proofing of information chains of custody will help that.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#48

Post by wazoox » Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 4:11 PM UTC

There are more dangereous AI than deepfakes. Blackrock 10 trillions investments are driven by an AI, Aladdin. It was also sold to some other investors, and controls about 21$ trillion globally. It has basically the power to drive markets worldwide. It's a systemic problem nobody talks about...

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#49

Post by berdon » Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 4:12 PM UTC

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

Reminds me of Stephenson's "Fall; Or Dodge in Hell" where all digital media is signed by their anonymous author and public keys become synonymous with identities. An entire industry of media curation existed in the book to handle bucketing media as spam, "fake", "true", interesting, etc.

Re: NeRF: An eventual successor for deepfakes?

#50

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

idontwantthis wrote: post #17

RubyRidgeRandy wrote: post #4

Something I've wondered lately is what will life be like in a post-truth society? we already see examples of this now where a large number of people get their news from fake memes on facebook. There are huge swathes of people who live in their own make-believe world, like those believing wholeheartedly that the 2020 election was stolen. What will life be like when you can't trust any video or interview you see becaus…

This doesn’t bother me that much because evidence isn’t required to convince millions of people that a lie is true. We already know this. Why make fake evidence that could be debunked when you can just have no evidence instead?

[deleted]