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Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

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Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#141

Post by rwooster »

collegeburner wrote: post #104
atwood22 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because workers' rights are a zero-sum game. There is a total amount of power that can be had in the workplace, and it is either held by the owners or the workers.

Do you really believe the owners will simply accept lower profits and not just pass on the cost to the consumer? This is how you get increasing costs but no actual improvement. Wage-price spiral.

This sounds like you think it's ok for companies to exploit workers if it keeps costs low - is that really your intent?

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#142

Post by NikolaNovak »

Xylakant wrote: post #137
NikolaNovak wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is 100%, extremely, dangerously, completely, utterly not the case in any North American union I've witnessed in North America. (it probably explains why it is difficult to have meaningful conversations and everybody attacks each other, if we have such radically different experiences and knowledge of union laws and procedures) FWIW, from my experience, In North America, it is the whole point of a union that "ever…

(Preface: This is simplifying and likely wrong to some extend, but my mother held a somewhat high post in a german union for a while, so I have some exposure) In germany, the union does not directly determine the pay rate. Membership in a union at a very fundamental level allows you to participate in the union activities, access to their resources (+) and the right to strike for work-related reasons (++). Unions can…

Thanks very much; though I'm from Europe, I left too young to experience unions there, so it's always enlightening to learn more. I have also understood from other folks that in much of Europe, unions have more of a seat at the business table as well, planning jointly for company's future and mutual success. Sadly, the unions I've experienced in North America have been much more "us vs them" in attitude and contract. :(

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#143

Post by sudosysgen »

ETH_start wrote: post #123
jmyeet wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every Amazon warehouse that unionizes make it less possible to close a given warehouse to snuff out a budding union. Amazon is spending millions on union-busting lawyers. From the article, workers had to go to mandatory anti-union classes, which is pretty funny coming from a company where you could get written up for "time off task" by taking a bathroom break. The propaganda the company is pushing is that the company…

>>The propaganda the company is pushing is that the company and the workers are working together. They are not. Those workers are being exploited. Bezos considered turnover desirable. While it is propaganda to claim the interests of the workers and company are aligned, it's also propaganda to claim that they're being exploited. A voluntary market interaction, that 95% of the world population would jump at the opportu…

No, it's not. You simply use a contrived definition of exploitation that begs the question. Anyone would agree that a set lord monopolizing all the land and asking serfs to enter serfdom contracts for the right to till it is exploitative, and a similar mechanism is at work. It's all a question of degree.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#144

Post by mejutoco »

j-bos wrote: post #35
rob74 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, TIL. However, if you look at the "language versions" of that Wikipedia page, that also explains my confusion: Deutsch: "US-Amerikaner" Español: "Estadounidense" Italiano: "Statunitensi" ... so there are plenty of languages that do make a distinction between "American living on the American continent(s)" and "American from the US". Full disclosure: I'm from Germany...

Minor quible, but most spanish speakers I know refer to people from the USA as Americanos. Estadounidenses gets used as part of legalese and in the context of non US nationalism.

One more data point. In my experience in Spain people definitely use estadounidense outside of legal documents. You could hear, or read, "la artista estadounidense", for instance.

"Americano" is used too, as well as "afroamericano" (not "afroestadounidense").

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#145

Post by alecco »

themitigating wrote: post #15
rob74 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Canada is also located in America, and if someone from Canada identifies "America" with the US they are belittling their own country? I mean, the sentence wouldn't have been less understandable if they had used "US-style" instead of "American-style"?

Everyone uses the term "America" to the US and even if they are referring to the both continents they say "The Americas". There isn't even a contient named "America"

"America" was originally what is now called South America. Mercator then called "America" both North and South. Then common use in English forced "America" to mean United States of America only. Schoolchildren in the rest of the countries are told "America" is a continent united by a continuous mountain range going from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego. I guess this will go away once education is globalized and homogenized into mainstream corporate narratives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas#Etymology_and_naming

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Cordillera

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#146

Post by philwelch »

rob74 wrote: post #2

Quoted post unavailable.

The full name of the country is United States of America. The USA is the only country with the word “America” as part of the name of the country. But it is not the only United States since Mexico is the United Mexican States. So “America” is the less ambiguous name.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#147

Post by mabbo »

rob74 wrote: post #2

Quoted post unavailable.

Canadians do not refer to themselves as "American" in the same way that the Irish don't refer to themselves as "British" despite living in the "British Isles".

If you insist on calling a Canadian "American", you'll quickly find they stop inviting you to social events. Because we're polite, but a bit passive aggressive.

Edit: grammar fixes.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#148

Post by philwelch »

alecco wrote: post #145
themitigating wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone uses the term "America" to the US and even if they are referring to the both continents they say "The Americas". There isn't even a contient named "America"

"America" was originally what is now called South America. Mercator then called "America" both North and South. Then common use in English forced "America" to mean United States of America only. Schoolchildren in the rest of the countries are told "America" is a continent united by a continuous mountain range going from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego. I guess this will go away once education is globalized and homogenized…

Yeah, sorry, if North and South America are all one continent, then Europe, Asia, and Africa are all one continent, too. In fact the Darien Gap is completely impassible, very much unlike the Urals or the Sinai.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#149

Post by [deleted] »

andrepd wrote: post #17
hrdwdmrbl wrote: post #4

Note: this website often contains highly unreliable material and often publishes articles defending such things as the Berlin Wall.

Yes, imagine a website publishing opinion pieces with diverse viewpoints, some of which you find repulsive... I fail to see how that is relevant for this particular article.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#150

Post by LanceH »

elicash wrote: post #139
ppod wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's vague and hearsay. The most frustrating thing about these debates is that the pro-union side are so hostile to anyone who questions anything, as though they assume that anyone who doubts the union must be a business owner. I'm a worker, I would like to be part of a union that worked. But I don't see unions that work, I just see unreasonable and propaganda-like articles like these. When there is a dispute…

You can be anti-union, that's fine. It's even legit to be pro-union but to say that for you personally, you're such an amazing performer that employers are fighting over you and so maybe the union is good for most but not you personally. For example, maybe NBA players would make much less without the union but LeBron personally would make more. Maybe you're the LeBron of developers! (There's no debate on whether barg…

The NBA players union is much more of a cartel (maybe trade guild?) than a union.

What they definitely aren't is a union representing the employees of the NBA. They are a tiny minority of the employees, who take only for themselves.

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