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Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

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Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#31

Post by andrepd »

meatsauce wrote: post #26
jmyeet wrote: post #6

It's a testament to how effective propaganda can be when you see how easily you can get people to vote against their own interests. It's crazy to me that anyone who works in these Amazon warehouses votes agains tunionization but they do [1]. Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. Unionization in the US is the lowest of all OECD nations (~10%) [2]. Is it any wonder US workers don't get paid…

Why do leftists believe they have the right to tell others what their interests are?

As the other other poster says: whatever those interests are, you cannot fight for them alone vs a trillion dollar corp like Amazon, so that point is moot. Collective action is the only way you stand a chance.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#32

Post by chrisseaton »

geysersam wrote: post #24
chrisseaton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever their interests are, they will be easier to achieve by unionizing. For example, say you're a talented younger worker and the majority of the union votes for pay by seniority, that's going against your interests.

Being in the union means you have a chance to influence those kinds of decisions.

Join a union so that you can fail to stop a change you never wanted in the first place? Why would you want to do that?

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#33

Post by atwood22 »

meatsauce wrote: post #26
jmyeet wrote: post #6

It's a testament to how effective propaganda can be when you see how easily you can get people to vote against their own interests. It's crazy to me that anyone who works in these Amazon warehouses votes agains tunionization but they do [1]. Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. Unionization in the US is the lowest of all OECD nations (~10%) [2]. Is it any wonder US workers don't get paid…

Why do leftists believe they have the right to tell others what their interests are?

Because workers' rights are a zero-sum game. There is a total amount of power that can be had in the workplace, and it is either held by the owners or the workers.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#34

Post by dools »

Unions and vaccines are similar in that they are a collective action against which people only complain due to their effectiveness.

That is to say, all the libertarians complaining about unions and vaccines can do so comfortably only because they have never been exposed to the horrors they helped to prevent .

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#35

Post by j-bos »

rob74 wrote: post #23
thaumasiotes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing incorrect about the fact that "American" refers specifically to the USA. Compare this wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans > Americans are the citizens and nationals of the United States of America.

Okay, TIL. However, if you look at the "language versions" of that Wikipedia page, that also explains my confusion: Deutsch: "US-Amerikaner" Español: "Estadounidense" Italiano: "Statunitensi" ... so there are plenty of languages that do make a distinction between "American living on the American continent(s)" and "American from the US". Full disclosure: I'm from Germany...

Minor quible, but most spanish speakers I know refer to people from the USA as Americanos. Estadounidenses gets used as part of legalese and in the context of non US nationalism.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#36

Post by andrepd »

dementiapatie wrote: post #25
jmyeet wrote: post #6

It's a testament to how effective propaganda can be when you see how easily you can get people to vote against their own interests. It's crazy to me that anyone who works in these Amazon warehouses votes agains tunionization but they do [1]. Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. Unionization in the US is the lowest of all OECD nations (~10%) [2]. Is it any wonder US workers don't get paid…

Quoted post unavailable.

Could you please elaborate in what way exactly the union "binds you to lowest performing co-worker"? As it stands your accusation is both vague and a classic anti-union scaremongering buzzword.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#37

Post by Closi »

djbebs wrote: post #22
jmyeet wrote: post #6

It's a testament to how effective propaganda can be when you see how easily you can get people to vote against their own interests. It's crazy to me that anyone who works in these Amazon warehouses votes agains tunionization but they do [1]. Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. Unionization in the US is the lowest of all OECD nations (~10%) [2]. Is it any wonder US workers don't get paid…

I would never join a union.

What's your job if you don't mind me asking?

"I would never join a union" is a pretty easy thing to say if you are in a job with decent pay, a labour market that wants your skills, and have reasonably good working conditions.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#38

Post by red_trumpet »

meatsauce wrote: post #27
geysersam wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever their interests are, they will be easier to achieve by unionizing. Not organizing only makes your interests irrelevant. That can hardly be in anyones own interests.

Quoted post unavailable.

He did not really define the interests of other people.

What kind of interests could one have, that are contrary to forming a union?

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#39

Post by sAbakumoff »

meatsauce wrote: post #26
jmyeet wrote: post #6

It's a testament to how effective propaganda can be when you see how easily you can get people to vote against their own interests. It's crazy to me that anyone who works in these Amazon warehouses votes agains tunionization but they do [1]. Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. Unionization in the US is the lowest of all OECD nations (~10%) [2]. Is it any wonder US workers don't get paid…

Why do leftists believe they have the right to tell others what their interests are?

A much better question would be – why does the American ruling class deny basic human rights – decent wage, affordable health care, good education, safety?

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#40

Post by indigochill »

geysersam wrote: post #12
fallingknife wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe it's you who has fallen for propaganda. I think it's most likely that they know their own interests better than you do.

Whatever their interests are, they will be easier to achieve by unionizing. Not organizing only makes your interests irrelevant. That can hardly be in anyones own interests.

I realize mine is not necessarily a majority experience, but as a young single no-debt high-performing worker, I can negotiate a lot more effectively by myself than I could in a union because I can argue purely on my own merits and if the employer is unreasonable (and not all are) it's fairly easy for me to switch employers. I even moved to a different country early in my career for a better career opportunity.

So no, unions are not in my personal interest. Though as I said, I can appreciate there are others who are less mobile or less inclined to negotiate as aggressively for whatever reason for whom they are useful. As long as unions don't get in my way (e.g. by mafia-style locking down an industry I want to work in) then I have no problem with them.

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