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Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

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Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#101

Post by iso1631 »

geysersam wrote: post #24
chrisseaton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever their interests are, they will be easier to achieve by unionizing. For example, say you're a talented younger worker and the majority of the union votes for pay by seniority, that's going against your interests.

Being in the union means you have a chance to influence those kinds of decisions.

Being in a democracy means you have a chance to influence the decisions, yet you end up with decisions not only you as a minority don't like, but even you as a majority don't like.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#102

Post by NikolaNovak »

djrobstep wrote: post #72
dementiapatie wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Interesting phenomenon I’ve noticed: Any thread on HN related to unions soon gets newly created accounts arriving to spread anti-union FUD talking points.

Right; It's not because anybody in any forum bringing up any dissenting points, immediately gets downvoted and called (and I quote from this thread) "classic anti-union scaremongering propagandist shill" and worse. No, it is definitely an anti-union conspiracy, and we are all definitely willing to discuss all sides of a contentious issue. /s

For what it's worth, I've been on Hacker News for many years, and it is against my better judgment to comment on this topic with my ID and name. Just look in this thread to the one-line reaction posts; turn on the "see dead posts" and check out how quickly opposing opinions are downvoted and flagged; and put yourself in position of anybody having even a slightly dissenting opinion or wanting to present both sides of an issue or a different, personal perspective. HN can be brutal.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#103

Post by viraptor »

kilotaras wrote: post #44
jmyeet wrote: post #6

It's a testament to how effective propaganda can be when you see how easily you can get people to vote against their own interests. It's crazy to me that anyone who works in these Amazon warehouses votes agains tunionization but they do [1]. Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. Unionization in the US is the lowest of all OECD nations (~10%) [2]. Is it any wonder US workers don't get paid…

> Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. I'm gonna steelman those no votes. BigCos don't like unions to the point they can and sometimes do close the place/warehouse alltogether. This is worse than working in non-union shop, especially in economically depressed area.

[citation needed] The warehouse where the union was established is still there. I can't even find information about any of not-unionised ones closing. Can you link information about any profitable Amazon warehouse which was actually closed as a result of union organising?

Also with the current Amazon's turnover rate you can't count on working for more than a year. Their annual turnover is over 100% for warehouses so it may be a loss for the area, but on a case-by-case basis those people would be looking for another job soon anyway.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#104

Post by collegeburner »

atwood22 wrote: post #33
meatsauce wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do leftists believe they have the right to tell others what their interests are?

Because workers' rights are a zero-sum game. There is a total amount of power that can be had in the workplace, and it is either held by the owners or the workers.

Do you really believe the owners will simply accept lower profits and not just pass on the cost to the consumer? This is how you get increasing costs but no actual improvement. Wage-price spiral.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#105

Post by jmyeet »

dementiapatie wrote: post #25
jmyeet wrote: post #6

It's a testament to how effective propaganda can be when you see how easily you can get people to vote against their own interests. It's crazy to me that anyone who works in these Amazon warehouses votes agains tunionization but they do [1]. Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. Unionization in the US is the lowest of all OECD nations (~10%) [2]. Is it any wonder US workers don't get paid…

Quoted post unavailable.

I'll highlight that the scope of my comment was deliberate, precise and narrow. The broader issue of unionization brings in other factors but we're talking about Amazon warehouse workers here.

These workers by their nature are highly replaceable. Replacebility is built into the system. It's desirable for the company. It's horrible for people and completely unnecessary.

What are you? Some star performer who can pack the boxes 10x better than the next guy? That's not a thing.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#106

Post by stewx »

jmyeet wrote: post #6

It's a testament to how effective propaganda can be when you see how easily you can get people to vote against their own interests. It's crazy to me that anyone who works in these Amazon warehouses votes agains tunionization but they do [1]. Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. Unionization in the US is the lowest of all OECD nations (~10%) [2]. Is it any wonder US workers don't get paid…

Reminder that this article is about Canada, where these workers already have maternity leave and health insurance paid for by the public.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#107

Post by chronofar »

Aissen wrote: post #63
chronofar wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is clearly too broad a brush. Collective bargaining is useful if your needs are aligned with the collective, if not they may be at best unhelpful and at worst actively counter productive (for instance if you have some personal circumstance you wanted to negotiate beyond the terms of the agreement, rather than negotiating with a boss or two you now have to negotiate with your representative organization). Not to…

> for instance if you have some personal circumstance you wanted to negotiate beyond the terms of the agreement, rather than negotiating with a boss or two you now have to negotiate with your representative organization Why ? I don't think unions forbid any direct negotiation. Or this is a US-thing ?

I would imagine it's dependent on the specifics of the agreement, but as I understand it yes it would not be at all uncommon for the union to have incentive to stipulate members cannot negotiate outside of the union terms.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#108

Post by treeman79 »

andrepd wrote: post #36
dementiapatie wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Could you please elaborate in what way exactly the union "binds you to lowest performing co-worker"? As it stands your accusation is both vague and a classic anti-union scaremongering buzzword.

Talking to many people who have been in or around unions for decades. Low performance seems to be the goal.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#109

Post by UncleMeat »

dementiapatie wrote: post #25
jmyeet wrote: post #6

It's a testament to how effective propaganda can be when you see how easily you can get people to vote against their own interests. It's crazy to me that anyone who works in these Amazon warehouses votes agains tunionization but they do [1]. Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. Unionization in the US is the lowest of all OECD nations (~10%) [2]. Is it any wonder US workers don't get paid…

Quoted post unavailable.

A union is just democratic control over the workplace. Your options are zero control or a small amount of control via voting.
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