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Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

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Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#71

Post by meatsauce »

sAbakumoff wrote: post #39
meatsauce wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do leftists believe they have the right to tell others what their interests are?

A much better question would be – why does the American ruling class deny basic human rights – decent wage, affordable health care, good education, safety?

Amazon starts at $18/hr.

You want $100/hour to pack and move boxes? Start a moving company.

Healthcare isn't a right. It is a luxury. Self defense, free speech, freedom of movement and association; those are human rights. Healthcare is only expensive because of the multiple layers of government and private corruption, litigation, and pie-halving. At the same time, Healthcare can save your life; what is your life truly worth? A $10 co-pay?

If we had a good education, then people wouldn't be whining about $18/hour.

Safety? Such as being insulated from ideas & opinions you don't like, or having zero risk for electrocution in electrical contracting?

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#72

Post by djrobstep »

dementiapatie wrote: post #25
jmyeet wrote: post #6

It's a testament to how effective propaganda can be when you see how easily you can get people to vote against their own interests. It's crazy to me that anyone who works in these Amazon warehouses votes agains tunionization but they do [1]. Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. Unionization in the US is the lowest of all OECD nations (~10%) [2]. Is it any wonder US workers don't get paid…

Quoted post unavailable.

Interesting phenomenon I’ve noticed: Any thread on HN related to unions soon gets newly created accounts arriving to spread anti-union FUD talking points.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#73

Post by Jhjjjjjjjj »

dunefox wrote: post #66
red_trumpet wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that irrational? If the union provides you with benefits, why would you not join?

Because that would be communism or something.

Or because large companies routinely shut union factories because it's unprofitable?

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#74

Post by phabricator »

indigochill wrote: post #40
geysersam wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever their interests are, they will be easier to achieve by unionizing. Not organizing only makes your interests irrelevant. That can hardly be in anyones own interests.

I realize mine is not necessarily a majority experience, but as a young single no-debt high-performing worker, I can negotiate a lot more effectively by myself than I could in a union because I can argue purely on my own merits and if the employer is unreasonable (and not all are) it's fairly easy for me to switch employers. I even moved to a different country early in my career for a better career opportunity. So no…

How does being union stop you from negotiating for yourself or switching employers?

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#75

Post by geysersam »

chronofar wrote: post #45
geysersam wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever their interests are, they will be easier to achieve by unionizing. Not organizing only makes your interests irrelevant. That can hardly be in anyones own interests.

That is clearly too broad a brush. Collective bargaining is useful if your needs are aligned with the collective, if not they may be at best unhelpful and at worst actively counter productive (for instance if you have some personal circumstance you wanted to negotiate beyond the terms of the agreement, rather than negotiating with a boss or two you now have to negotiate with your representative organization). Not to…

Sure, I agree with you, there are nuances. But it's also quite clear individual workers benefit from unionizing almost always. Corporations are large and have an enormous advantage in negotiation with a single, replaceable worker.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#76

Post by boudin »

djbebs wrote: post #22
jmyeet wrote: post #6

It's a testament to how effective propaganda can be when you see how easily you can get people to vote against their own interests. It's crazy to me that anyone who works in these Amazon warehouses votes agains tunionization but they do [1]. Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. Unionization in the US is the lowest of all OECD nations (~10%) [2]. Is it any wonder US workers don't get paid…

I would never join a union.

Union are not born out of nowhere. Those exists to balance relationships. Most of the work a union does not get publicity but can is really important by ensuring of the well being of employees. Union do not create problems, they just give visibility to problems which are already there. Of course, like everything, some unions takes bad decisions, but that's just a small part of it.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#77

Post by andrepd »

meatsauce wrote: post #50
andrepd wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the other other poster says: whatever those interests are, you cannot fight for them alone vs a trillion dollar corp like Amazon, so that point is moot. Collective action is the only way you stand a chance.

You can work someplace else if you hate the company. Imagine that.

Okay. So your company treats you like shit and you quit. Where do you go now? You need to sell your labour to survive, so you lost all your income. Your employer has other sources of income, has reserve capital, so that even if your job was critical and production is now shut while they look for a replacement (unlikely), they're gonna be fine. But you need to eat tonight. Not next quarter or next month or even next week, tonight. You need to pay the bank/landlord a steady sum or you'll become homeless. And god forbid you get less than perfectly healthy.

So you don't quit actually, because it is not possible for you to quit. Capital has far more power than a (so-called) "unskilled worker", especially if there's no collective action. They have all the leverage, the worker has none, so they can dictate the conditions, i.e. the bare minimum for the worker to survive and continue working, and the worker has only to accept.

I feel like I'm saying really basic stuff.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#78

Post by Xylakant »

indigochill wrote: post #40
geysersam wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever their interests are, they will be easier to achieve by unionizing. Not organizing only makes your interests irrelevant. That can hardly be in anyones own interests.

I realize mine is not necessarily a majority experience, but as a young single no-debt high-performing worker, I can negotiate a lot more effectively by myself than I could in a union because I can argue purely on my own merits and if the employer is unreasonable (and not all are) it's fairly easy for me to switch employers. I even moved to a different country early in my career for a better career opportunity. So no…

So what happens if you ever stop being a young single no-debt high-performing worker. For example because you marry. Because you start having kids. Because you’re injured in your workplace. Because some medical procedure bankrupts you. Because you grow older? Solidarity is always give and take. You give while you can, so that someone can give to you when you need to.

You definitely can try to ride all of the ups and downs your life has in store for you but if you’re unlucky, your life will have something that you can’t handle on your own.

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#79

Post by ETH_start »

jmyeet wrote: post #6

It's a testament to how effective propaganda can be when you see how easily you can get people to vote against their own interests. It's crazy to me that anyone who works in these Amazon warehouses votes agains tunionization but they do [1]. Even in the successful vote, there were still a lot of "no" votes. Unionization in the US is the lowest of all OECD nations (~10%) [2]. Is it any wonder US workers don't get paid…

[flagged]

Re: Amazon is intimidating and harassing organizing workers in Montreal

#80

Post by Jhjjjjjjjj »

andrepd wrote: post #36
dementiapatie wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Could you please elaborate in what way exactly the union "binds you to lowest performing co-worker"? As it stands your accusation is both vague and a classic anti-union scaremongering buzzword.

The lowest performing worker gets paid the same as a high performing one. Not very difficult to understand his point
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