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The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

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Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#61

Post by SoftTalker »

Gare wrote: post #53
Animats wrote: post #46

China's Belt and Road initiative is forcing more railways in Asia to support "standard gauge" (1435 mm) width, which China and Europe, while the Soviet-era countries use 1520mm. The goal is to be able to run freight from China to Europe.[1] Some track is dual-gauge. There's enough difference between 1435mm and 1520mm to use a 3-rail system. Plain track isn't too hard, but switches are complicated. [1] https://asiatim…

> There's enough difference between 1435mm and 1520mm to use a 3-rail system. Can you provide an example? I've only seen 4-rail dual-gauge systems for those gauges.

Why would you need 4 rails?

   |            |  |
   |            |  |
Left wheel uses left rail.

If narrow gauuge, the right wheel uses the innner rail. If wide gauge, the right wheel uses the outer rail.

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#62

Post by hinkley »

kergonath wrote: post #17
kposehn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Agreed for the most part, though I think a startup could overcome the break-of-gauge limitations pretty fast with moderate investment (and less red tape). 2. There are multiple different ways of handling BofG; the holdup is just deploying it effectively. 3. For loading gauge, using EU grain hauling stock with variable gauge (or swapped) bogies would be ideal - this avoids issues with larger cars and heavier axle l…

> I think a startup could overcome the break-of-gauge limitations pretty fast with moderate investment (and less red tape) I am not sure what the angle is, here. Variable-gauge trains are things we can build, and as a matter of fact there are a bunch of them crossing the French-Spanish border every day. It’s not some magical disruptive technology that boring old engineering firms could not crack. It would not solve t…

I need to see videos of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwNl-g_91GE

So the first split gauge cars went into service in 1965, but it took a while for them to create locomotives that could do the same thing.

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#63

Post by hinkley »

jacobolus wrote: post #60
Guthur wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better way to avoid conflict would be an international ban on military alliances not railway gauges. The notion that any great power would be curtailed from action by the width of train tracks is laughable.

Whether Russia should be considered a “great power” at this point is questionable. (Though they are surely still a nuclear-weapons-armed state.) The Ukraine war has demonstrated that the Russian armed forces is barely capable of operating away from railheads. Their entire logistics system is based on rail, and they don’t have enough fuel trucks, general-purpose tactical trucks, engineering vehicles, etc. to keep thei…

There's a theory that the West is currently eating itself. There's a theory that the Russians are behind it. There's a separate theory that Zuckerberg is Nero, and a third theory that both are true.

Gorbachev purportedly asserted that Chernobyl was the linchpin of the fall of the USSR. It's hard not to look around and at least be... concerned. Especially this week.

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#64

Post by innocenat »

SoftTalker wrote: post #61
Gare wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's enough difference between 1435mm and 1520mm to use a 3-rail system. Can you provide an example? I've only seen 4-rail dual-gauge systems for those gauges.

Why would you need 4 rails? | | | | | | Left wheel uses left rail. If narrow gauuge, the right wheel uses the innner rail. If wide gauge, the right wheel uses the outer rail.

Because rails are 3 dimensional and has width.

Between 1435mm and 1520mm there's only 85mm space. I am not even sure if you could mount two rail that close.

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#65

Post by ireflect »

AlbertCory wrote: post #28

If you are not a train buff, this comment is not for you. (I wouldn't claim I'm one myself, but let's say I'm a "sympathizer.") I just heard about this rather large model railroad [1], up near Skyline on private land (this is in the Bay Area). When I say "rather large" I mean "you can ride on it." It's members-only. I'm not a member. (If you were only 60 years old, you'd be the youngest.) They have giant workshops wh…

One in Vancouver, BC too:

https://bcsme.org/

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#66

Post by justsomehnguy »

SoftTalker wrote: post #61
Gare wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's enough difference between 1435mm and 1520mm to use a 3-rail system. Can you provide an example? I've only seen 4-rail dual-gauge systems for those gauges.

Why would you need 4 rails? | | | | | | Left wheel uses left rail. If narrow gauuge, the right wheel uses the innner rail. If wide gauge, the right wheel uses the outer rail.

  These gauges cannot make 3-rail dual gauge with Russian gauge.

    1,676 mm (5 ft 6 in) Indian gauge
    1,668 mm (5 ft 5+21⁄32 in) Iberian gauge
    1,600 mm (5 ft 3 in) Irish gauge
    1,435 mm (4 ft 8+1⁄2 in) standard gauge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_ft_and_1520_mm_gauge_railway...

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#67

Post by justsomehnguy »

innocenat wrote: post #64
SoftTalker wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you need 4 rails? | | | | | | Left wheel uses left rail. If narrow gauuge, the right wheel uses the innner rail. If wide gauge, the right wheel uses the outer rail.

Because rails are 3 dimensional and has width. Between 1435mm and 1520mm there's only 85mm space. I am not even sure if you could mount two rail that close.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/NYCS_DUD...

3" equals to 76.2mm, which leaves only 8.8mm. No way.

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#69

Post by Animats »

justsomehnguy wrote: post #66
SoftTalker wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you need 4 rails? | | | | | | Left wheel uses left rail. If narrow gauuge, the right wheel uses the innner rail. If wide gauge, the right wheel uses the outer rail.

These gauges cannot make 3-rail dual gauge with Russian gauge. 1,676 mm (5 ft 6 in) Indian gauge 1,668 mm (5 ft 5+21⁄32 in) Iberian gauge 1,600 mm (5 ft 3 in) Irish gauge 1,435 mm (4 ft 8+1⁄2 in) standard gauge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_ft_and_1520_mm_gauge_railway...

I got that info reading about a dual-gauge solution for China's Belt and Road. But it was a political piece on the "Akhaura-Sylhet dual gauge project" in Bangladesh. Turns out that India, Pakistan, western Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka (also, SF's BART) use 1,676 mm gauge. There's enough space between that and 1,435 mm standard gauge for 3-rail. Not sure about 4-rail.
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