Live data from Hacker News

The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

hackaday.com

51–60 of 90 posts

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#51
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently hopper cars can hold ~100 tons. Still some tough arithmetic.

Now I learned thought that "In 2020, U.S. Class I railroads moved nearly 1.5 million carloads of grain." Apparently it's almost possible in that sense.

It’s almost as if the US actually does have a good rail system, except it’s been optimized for freight. /sarc.

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#52
post #14

So my grandpa was an engineer and I love railways... "different signaling systems, different voltages for electrical trains" isn't that much of a problem nowadays. There are almost always enough multi-system engines available that can cross borders and cope with those changes. We have a jumble of voltages in Czechia and yet another voltage on our German/Austrian borders, and trains go through without a hitch, not eve…

1. Agreed for the most part, though I think a startup could overcome the break-of-gauge limitations pretty fast with moderate investment (and less red tape). 2. There are multiple different ways of handling BofG; the holdup is just deploying it effectively. 3. For loading gauge, using EU grain hauling stock with variable gauge (or swapped) bogies would be ideal - this avoids issues with larger cars and heavier axle l…

Just make a startup to fix it is classic HN. Six generations of hackers have been working on the problem of track gauge, but it’s obviously going to be solved with a few million in VC funding.

On the last point, some gauges are too close to run dual gauge tracks well. It’s great when you can just add a third rail, but European and Soviet standards are too close and need four rails to run on the same track.

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#53
post #46

China's Belt and Road initiative is forcing more railways in Asia to support "standard gauge" (1435 mm) width, which China and Europe, while the Soviet-era countries use 1520mm. The goal is to be able to run freight from China to Europe.[1] Some track is dual-gauge. There's enough difference between 1435mm and 1520mm to use a 3-rail system. Plain track isn't too hard, but switches are complicated. [1] https://asiatim…

> There's enough difference between 1435mm and 1520mm to use a 3-rail system.

Can you provide an example? I've only seen 4-rail dual-gauge systems for those gauges.

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think a startup could overcome the break-of-gauge limitations pretty fast with moderate investment (and less red tape) I am not sure what the angle is, here. Variable-gauge trains are things we can build, and as a matter of fact there are a bunch of them crossing the French-Spanish border every day. It’s not some magical disruptive technology that boring old engineering firms could not crack. It would not solve t…

> Variable-gauge trains are things we can build, and as a matter of fact there are a bunch of them crossing the French-Spanish border every day. The high speed lines are all standard gauge in both countries. At the crossing between Puigcerdà and La Tour de Carol the Catalan regional train goes one stop into France on an Iberian gauge line which ends there (English Wikipedia needs to be updated to reflect this). At th…

> The high speed lines are all standard gauge in both countries.

This is not what I was referring to. Variable gauge (Talgo) trains go through gauge changers at the border without going to the high speed Spanish lines. This has been done since 1969, and that’s how you can have a single train going from Barcelona to Montpellier (and then Geneva, back in the day). It really is not rocket science and has been done for 60 years now.

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#55

So my grandpa was an engineer and I love railways... "different signaling systems, different voltages for electrical trains" isn't that much of a problem nowadays. There are almost always enough multi-system engines available that can cross borders and cope with those changes. We have a jumble of voltages in Czechia and yet another voltage on our German/Austrian borders, and trains go through without a hitch, not eve…

A better way to avoid conflict would be an international ban on military alliances not railway gauges.

The notion that any great power would be curtailed from action by the width of train tracks is laughable.

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#56

One clear benefit of ensuring disparity of rail systems across adjacent countries is protection from an impromptu invasion. IIRC for some countries during the WWs, that was a main reason for the differences and was in fact effective. I wonder if the rail systems difference helped avoid Russia using the rail system for the invasion of Ukraine.

Russia and Ukraine have the same gauge. The reason the railroads weren't used to invade is because Ukraine managed to damage the connecting infrastructure enough. Turns out that railroads are a lot better defensively than offensively, in an era of widespread drone usage.

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#57
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what do either of those factors have to do with startups? If economics and politics are the primary blockers, what exactly are startups bringing to the table?

Someone has to start it. Incumbents so far have not.

But that’s the thing, to start what? So far there has been no real need, but existing companies are perfectly able to do it once the need arises (particularly as there is bound to be some significant EU funding for this). Again, boring old companies do just that across several borders, and have been doing it for decades.

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#59

If you are not a train buff, this comment is not for you. (I wouldn't claim I'm one myself, but let's say I'm a "sympathizer.") I just heard about this rather large model railroad [1], up near Skyline on private land (this is in the Bay Area). When I say "rather large" I mean "you can ride on it." It's members-only. I'm not a member. (If you were only 60 years old, you'd be the youngest.) They have giant workshops wh…

There's one in Bonita near San Diego: https://chulavistalivesteamers.org

Re: The fragmented nature of modern-day railways

#60
post #55

So my grandpa was an engineer and I love railways... "different signaling systems, different voltages for electrical trains" isn't that much of a problem nowadays. There are almost always enough multi-system engines available that can cross borders and cope with those changes. We have a jumble of voltages in Czechia and yet another voltage on our German/Austrian borders, and trains go through without a hitch, not eve…

A better way to avoid conflict would be an international ban on military alliances not railway gauges. The notion that any great power would be curtailed from action by the width of train tracks is laughable.

Whether Russia should be considered a “great power” at this point is questionable. (Though they are surely still a nuclear-weapons-armed state.)

The Ukraine war has demonstrated that the Russian armed forces is barely capable of operating away from railheads. Their entire logistics system is based on rail, and they don’t have enough fuel trucks, general-purpose tactical trucks, engineering vehicles, etc. to keep their troops supplied and moving if they get too far (maybe 100–150 km at most) from the nearest railhead. They start running out of food, fuel, and ammo, and quickly get bogged down.

This late-2021 analysis was prescient: https://warontherocks.com/2021/11/feeding-the-bear-a-closer-...

Post reply on HN