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I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

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Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: why not simply an ultra-light laptop? I've taken a hard look at what the strengths/weaknesses of tablets are (see my link-drop elsewhere in this subthread), and the one thing they're really good at seems to be reading ebooks. For which a dedicated e-ink ebook reader is far superior. Almost any productivity task is better done with a keyboard, ergo, laptop. Video and audio capture are more flexibly a…

Sometimes I just want to just browse and consume content and don't need a keyboard. Sometimes I want to annotate and handwrite on something and the ones with keyboards that fold back, become too thick. The iPad has a great size and depth for this. When I use my wife's the thickness is not bad. If I want to annotate a PDF, I can sit on the couch and it's super easy and not heavy or too thick. Videos, I can easily remo…

E-ink tablet fits for pretty much all of this.

I'm pretty happy with the Onyx BOOX Max Lumi. That's 13.3". There are 10.3" and 8" devices as well.

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#172
post #148
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's truly no equal for doing tablet stuff. Lenovo X1 Fold: it's so small it's always with me. Great keyboard, OLED screen. I use it with a regular Thinkpad bluetooth keyboard for terminal work. I'm now working on the Linux support now that I got the ACPI S01x fixed under Windows.

By tablet stuff, I mean reading, taking notes and sketching. No app ecosystem does it like iPad OS'. The problem with the Surface Go isn't the hardware, but the fact that it runs Windows, a system that just isn't made for these things. The most ridiculous part was being forced to "save or discard" drawings before I could close an app. I had to painstakingly pick a location and name for each file. It felt like using P…

I've got an ipad in a drawer somewhere. Also work has been trying to push a macbook on me. After trying it I said no: I stick to my Fold, because I like it better, both for the hardware and the software.

It's smaller and does everything multiple separate device would be needed for.

> I had to painstakingly pick a location and name for each file.

First world problem lol!!

For old apps, I have an AHK shortcut to save files by ISO date. However, it's rarely a problem with modern apps. And if you close them without saving, most of them will bring back your unsaved work. Even Word does that!

> By tablet stuff, I mean reading, taking notes and sketching. No app ecosystem does it like iPad OS'.

For comics and mangas, I use Takiyomi (technically, it's an android app, but WSA makes it seamless)

For taking notes, I use ZimWiki and Windows stickies

For sketching, I use OneNote.

> The iPad was so much better at its task that it's not even funny.

We must have very different uses, because between even just Takiyomi+OneNote vs an ipad, indeed it's not funny for the ipad.

> That's on top of the regular Windows problems. I spent the first day just doing updates and disabling bloat

Well, don't look further for the root cause: "disabling bloat" often causes more problems. I only remove very specific things. For updates, I use Windows Pro and usually defer them until I want to reboot. When I read the problem people report with windows, it's like they live in a different world.

> Now I take my iPad everywhere, and if I intend to do more work, I pack my Macbook

I just take my Fold everywhere - nothing else is needed, but I've got a bluetooth keyboard for comfort if I want to type a lot.

On the Fold, I can draw with a Wacom pen - no need for a separate device like the ipad, because most windows tablet and convertibles also have a touchscreen.

If I need to work, I have Windows Terminal and everything I need to code. ZimWiki means my notes can be converted to HTML and published.

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#173
post #159
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for decent powered charger try one from https://frame.work -- it also has both power and USB-C cords detachable, so you can use any other USB-C you like, as well as custom length (or plug) power cords. Uh? That's HUGE! I recommend instead a AOHI GaN USB-C PD charger: the 30W is much smaller and sufficient to charge most laptops https://www.amazon.com/dp/B097BWY4WG The chubbier AOHI 65W I got when I thought I may…

> the 30W is much smaller and sufficient to charge most laptops Even the M1, which is praised for it's power efficiency can hit 40-50W under load. Such a charger will let the battery run down if you actually use your laptop for intensive tasks while charging. I don't think that qualifies as "most laptops" (and forget high end Intel laptops that are more than a generation old, they'd draw more than that watching a 4k…

> Even the M1, which is praised for it's power efficiency can hit 40-50W under load

I've sometimes seen high draws thanks to the small display on the cable, but I rarely do very intensive task at a coffeeshop.

The small charger is mostly for the peace of mind.

At home, I've got the chubby 65W if needed.

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Am I asking too much? I want a tablet with high precision drawing and low-latency to take notes about everything" This is actually quite much. Low latency means high powered hardware and all of that in a slim, passive cooled fanless design, bundled with the best possible display avaiable. I don't see how one can ask for more ... (but I actually want the same)

Is that really that high of a bar? A bunch of Apple tablets and Samsung phones offer those features, as did Wacom tablets a decade ago. There are even (relatively) low latency inkable e-ink devices.

It is a high bar, when you are seriously drawing on a tablet, you want really low latency.

But yes, there are devices which are quite good. But ideally I also would want a linux one.

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#175
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but isn't Android already Linux? What's the advantage of installing another distro? I thought the whole point of Android is to make a curated touch friendly Linux experience. If you want a more traditional distro, wouldn't a touchscreen laptop (yoga etc.) be a better choice, if only for x86 support?

Android is running a Linux kernel, yes. But, as an enthusiast GNU+Linux desktop user you'll find that you can't do your linuxy stuff on Android - sure, termux does a lot, but it's just not the same. The Surface Go 2 that the article is about, is an x86_64 device - I recently aquired one and it's really quite nice with Linux in my limited testing. The biggest difficulty with a standard desktop GNU+Linux on a tablet is…

> The biggest difficulty with a standard desktop GNU+Linux on a tablet is that most distributions are not optimized for easy tablet use - KDE Neon User Edition e.g. does not come with a virtual keyboard preinstalled.

Ubuntu 22 on a Lenovo X1 Fold gave me the OSK without installing anything - though the touchscreen was not supported by default, the driver is under work cf https://github.com/quo/ithc-linux

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who has tried setting up Linux like 5-10 times over the years this sounds exactly like my experience and basically what I assume Linux use is always like. It’s just like cars, there are people who are super comfortable just tinkering around with cars and fixing crap and say “this car is great” and if I tried to drive it it’d break down 5 minutes in and I would consider it a total loss.

I've been using Linux professionally for a decade, on many machines (desktop/laptop), and the compatibility is really hardware-dependent. It's "for tinkerers" on some hardware, and "fully mainstream" on other. Choosing a Microsoft laptop to use Linux is asking for trouble :) I had two of them, and Microsoft had this awful idea of the connected standby, which caused standby/suspend problems (power-hungry standby, whic…

> Choosing a Microsoft laptop to use Linux is asking for trouble :)

Not true anymore.

> I had two of them, and Microsoft had this awful idea of the connected standby, which caused standby/suspend problems (power-hungry standby, which is a very serious problem on a laptop).

When? Which models?

ACPI S01x when well done works better than ACPI S3, and Linux support for S01x is now getting quite good.

On a X1 nano, I've got less than 0.2%/h of power draw: so 10h of sleep consumes about 2% battery

On the X1 Fold, I was able to reduce that to about 0.5%/h after some workaround for Intel drivers bugs: cf https://csdvrx.github.io/ or just the graph https://csdvrx.github.io/X1_Fold_(20RL_20RK)_Optimization/pa...

It's still a work in progress, but I can't remember ACPI S3 consuming less that 5% overnight and resuming instantly.

> I don't remember having to do any tweak on desktop machine, except the time where I had a very modern Ryzen that was supported by very recent kernels only.

Laptops often need more tweaks than desktops.

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#177
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because you need a mobile desktop, not a tablet?

This is better served by a laptop for the majority of people, though as someone that uses an unconventional keyboard anyway, a laptop is somewhat less compelling (since it occupies a lot of space with a keyboard that I actively avoid using), I can certainly see the appeal of a tablet for that purpose. I personally don't think Microsoft quite got it right with using Windows on a tablet, though it was certainly a lot b…

Related to the Surface Pro 2, I have Ubuntu 22.04 LTS running on an 8 GiB version (i5-4300 CPU), 256 GB SSD.

It's been reasonable for what I use it for, mainly SDR applications, such as CubicSDR and GNU Radio X11 apps, and multiple CLI apps like rtl_433. Audio is good, screen is fine, and WiFi works. It's nice to have a laptop if I want to use an antenna outside.

Don't even bother using the tiny trackpad on that model's type cover. Bluetooth works so I use that for an external mouse.

Bonus: I never even thought to try the built-in video cam, and after reading the article, I installed VLC and to my surprise the camera worked!

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#178

It's a "Solid Debian Tablet" because it boots. Linux religionists ignore all problems after booting. Linux and Oss in general are religions like Apple is. "Apple has NEVER done anything wrong," an Apple cleric told me about Antennagate. I've been using Linux for programming work for ten years now, but every time I buy a new machine I try to use Linux natively. In the last attempt, Linux stopped working after I tried…

[deleted]

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#179

It's a "Solid Debian Tablet" because it boots. Linux religionists ignore all problems after booting. Linux and Oss in general are religions like Apple is. "Apple has NEVER done anything wrong," an Apple cleric told me about Antennagate. I've been using Linux for programming work for ten years now, but every time I buy a new machine I try to use Linux natively. In the last attempt, Linux stopped working after I tried…

I'd say your experience is atypical. When I'm preparing to buy a new device that I expect to install Linux on, I look it up and make sure that everything will work (or the steps to take to ensure everything will work.) I buy the device, install Linux on first power-up, it installs fine, I never have any significant problems that I wasn't expecting.

Instead of constantly accusing people of being religious zealots (in order to associate them with irrationality), how about just doing an hour of research before making your next attempt?

Re: I Finally Found a Solid Debian Tablet: The Surface Go 2

#180

It's a "Solid Debian Tablet" because it boots. Linux religionists ignore all problems after booting. Linux and Oss in general are religions like Apple is. "Apple has NEVER done anything wrong," an Apple cleric told me about Antennagate. I've been using Linux for programming work for ten years now, but every time I buy a new machine I try to use Linux natively. In the last attempt, Linux stopped working after I tried…

I agree with your assessment. Linux and open source is, very often, an aftermarket solution. As such, it lags in things like hardware support, design trends, integration with other products. In fact, this is one of the things Microsoft made sure with their business tactics regarding Windows: that Windows should be the primary PC platform. They did their hardest to support this software-wise, with things like backward compatibility, and with ruthless business deals, bundling, support and discounts for govs and schools, and by letting people pirate it to their hearts' content. The result is what we see today: Windows everywhere, every hardware supports Windows, every software runs on Windows. Plug and play. (With caveats of course, for example I have an USB wifi stick that makes Win10 BSOD the moment I disconnect it. Linux has no problem with it.)

That said, I lucked out with my Linux experience. Everything I need works well, and I don't tinker with it more than I did with Windows. The main difference is that I have much more control over the situation, compared to Windows' typical unhelpful messages and opaque environment.

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