The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

Post by nomel » Wed, Jun 22, 2022, 1:13 AM UTC

the_af wrote: post #290

nomel wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're coming from a context that isn't design, so there's a language mismatch here. In design, and basically everything not dictated by maths/optimization, the precise definition of "best" is that it's subjective. From the dictionary: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/best > 1. excelling all others > 2. offering or producing the greatest advantage, utility, or satisfaction Different models of produc…

Both definitions 1 & 2 are universal and not exclusive to design, and furthermore, prove my point. I stand by my opinion: Ive was either careless about words, or pointing out a flaw in Apple's process. Please, don't try to convince me I don't understand product design or what "best" means. At this point, this intellectual match trying to save Ive from his own words is not productive. Let's agree to disagree.

Post by the_af » Wed, Jun 22, 2022, 3:02 PM UTC

nomel wrote: post #291

the_af wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both definitions 1 & 2 are universal and not exclusive to design, and furthermore, prove my point. I stand by my opinion: Ive was either careless about words, or pointing out a flaw in Apple's process. Please, don't try to convince me I don't understand product design or what "best" means. At this point, this intellectual match trying to save Ive from his own words is not productive. Let's agree to disagree.

How about an example then? Could you tell me what the best car to buy is? If you present the same make, model, and year as me, then perhaps you’re right. From what you've said, I think we can agree that you don't need details like my location, income, number of passengers, range, or driving habits.

Post by sumedh » Fri, Jun 24, 2022, 5:07 AM UTC

the_af wrote: post #294

sumedh wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An unqualified "best" means it's the best. No not really, real life does not work that, you can be best in some aspect while not the best in other aspects but for some reason you dont seem to understand nuance, its probably your hatred for Ive that seems to be clouding your judgement.

"Best in some aspects" is not an unqualified best. Maybe Ive should have been more careful about his wording -- which was my point, after all! > its probably your hatred for Ive that seems to be clouding your judgement Wow. Hatred. I don't even know the guy, how can I hate him? I don't own a Mac, I just use one provided by my work. I don't own an iphone. I really don't pay much attention to Ive at all, just pointing…

Post by sumedh » Fri, Jun 24, 2022, 3:07 PM UTC

the_af wrote: post #296

sumedh wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is that how you normally debate Is that how you normally debate by making personal attacks? You have already made up your mind the Ive makes many mistakes. > Maybe Ive should have been more careful about his wording -- which was my point, after all! and my point was that there are nuances which for some reason you still dont understand because you have already made up your mind about Ive, so lets agree to disagree…

I'm sorry, where did I personally attack you? I struggle to follow your line of reasoning. > You have already made up your mind the Ive makes many mistakes. I made my mind just like any person would: by looking at past behavior. This is not a sin, is how human judgment works. > you still dont understand Ok then. Good luck with your debate tactics.

Post by trafnar » Fri, Jun 24, 2022, 6:52 PM UTC

ascar wrote: post #150

scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #9

That bit about the firing of the designer who used the river metaphor in that email is such a good lesson for anyone: Never ever ever ever announce moves like this if there is still money on the table that can still be taken away from you. No matter how awesome your company is, how great the team, product or how wonderful the atmosphere is. This guy thought he wrote a heartfelt goodbye to his beloved team and was ins…

Can someone explain to me how you can fire someone that already declared to leave and do financial damage to the employee with that? I guess it's some clause of a vesting schedule that gets triggered when being fired and he already declared his resignation before his shares were vested, but they would've been after his last day? I find it so weird that he already quit the job but the company could actually save money…