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Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

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Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#521

Post by PontifexMinimus »

stickfigure wrote: post #361
PontifexMinimus wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would require home built solutions which would always be terrible, less secure, I disagree. It would be relatively straightforward to build such systems on Linux and open source. > and more expensive to the tax payer As a proportion of Italy's GDP, the cost would be negligible, especially given that this is a matter of national security, something governments tend to be keen to spend money on.

> As a proportion of Italy's GDP, the cost would be negligible After how many failed rewrites that never deliver a working product?

Zero. Start off with using the latest Ubuntu LTS. Then add stuff as needed.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#522

Post by DisjointedHunt »

tgv wrote: post #431
DisjointedHunt wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU hasn’t shaken off their roots in monarchy. Using the power of the state to go after a single private entity since they have a blood feud with said entity and are now finding all sorts of excuses to hit them economically. I’ve been following the cases with regard to privacy in the EU and it’s a complete joke. You have all these onerous rules against any web technology making it near impossible for startups to f…

You may be looking at this through a very narrow, heavily politicized lens. First: GDPR is a compromise, so it's a bit uneven. That's partly due to lobbying by google and friends. Second, privacy very much needs protection. Even if you are perfectly fine giving up your privacy, other people aren't. Third: you can actually process user requests. Depending on how you do it, you don't even have to show a banner. Is that…

I mean, before accusing someone of looking at this politically, please read the comment fully.

You’re taking pains to explain why GDPR is a compromise? Why? If it’s bad law, it’s bad law.

Nothing you said invalidates the assertions I’ve made. Unless you’ve directly experienced the onerous system of regulations in places like Germany, I’d urge you to do more research before the armchair dismissal.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#523

Post by arendtio »

cm2012 wrote: post #91

Another decision in a long stream that will make it much harder for EU start-ups companies to catch up to American ones. With absolutely no improvements to actual EU citizen well being.

Actually, the cookie layers of Google have become a lot better in recent months. I doubt that is was Googles initiative, so I think that all this legal stuff is making a difference. Yes, it is a very slow process, but what would be an alternative?

Yes it doesn't solve the startup problem, but honestly there also also a ton of other laws and regulations outside of data protection which make it hard for startups to prosper. Web Analytics seems a relatively minor problem.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#524

Post by adrr »

nedt wrote: post #508
adrr wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you tracking returning users without cookies? Also if it’s multi-lingual, how are you storing the language prefs?

Why would you need that? All businsess that aren't online can't collect that data and we still have newspapers and supermarkets. If you are interested in that data just ask your users.

Supermarkets were the original trackers of users and first to start using personas. They are tracking you with personalized coupons redemptions, loyalty programs and through digital payments. Tesco's personalization is so good they can tell if you started a diet or are dating someone new.

Printed newspapers are disappearing. Ad supported news sites need tracking for ad targeting otherwise there isn't enough ad revenue to support their business.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#525

Post by mywittyname »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #491
stingraycharles wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an extremely important nuance which is not obvious from the title.

Most of the people using GA wouldn't be able to set it up correctly. I switched my personal site from GA to Microanalytics, since I wanted to avoid spending time trying to figure out how to configure GA to be conformant. Google should be the one doing the compliance work. If Italy bans some usage pattern in GA, it's Google that should make it impossible to configure it in non-conformant way.

It's not that bad: https://support.google.com/analytics/answer/6366371?hl=en#zi...

The most difficult aspect is dealing with URLs. But a company that is large enough to be customizing URLs per user, is large enough to make a few JS changes to ensure they aren't sending those details to GA.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#526

Post by Dylan16807 »

scarface74 wrote: post #516
Dylan16807 wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the context here was entire countries switching, not single school districts. The money is there.

In the US, congressmen make $170K a year, the president makes around $400K a year. Junior developers at large tech companies can make $170K easily in year one or two. Senior developers at tech companies make $400K+. Is the government going to pay tech workers enough to compete?

It could.

Or it can offer tens of millions of dollars for some software and see who bids.

Especially when the previous provider would probably like to get more money selling something to the government, even if they have to make changes.

The above poster was willing to pay "1% GDP" for the initial migration and for the US 200 billion dollars would pay for a lot of development work.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#527

Post by olalonde »

Nextgrid wrote: post #369
olalonde wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem with GDPR. A lot of people are fine with this arrangement, but the GDPR is basically making it unlawful. GDPR is basically imposing the preferences of other people (e.g. progman32) on us.

The problem that regulation is trying to solve is that if "personal data" becomes an acceptable form of payment then people won't actually have a choice and companies can force people to provide data by not offering any alternative payment methods. The GDPR effectively outlaws using personal data as payment which IMO is a good thing because unlike money, personal data is not a one-off transaction (the data can be val…

This assumes that businesses hold all the power and can dictate payment methods to consumers. That's not how it works in a market economy. If there is a demand for alternative payment methods, businesses ignoring it will get outcompeted by competitors who do satisfy that demand.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#528

Post by walrusfromspace »

koyote wrote: post #390
IX-103 wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When PII includes IP addresses it's kind of hard not to process. How else are you supposed to group metrics over a session (since cookies are also forbidden)? This seems to ban third-party analytics by any US company. The cynic in me feels this is a little convenient in how it advantages EU organizations over foreign ones...

Do you have a source on PII including IP addresses?

The European Commission's official website[1]

[1] https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo...

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#529

Post by trasz »

alexklarjr wrote: post #518
trasz wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blockade and weapons are consequences of Russian invasion. Russia started this war. And yes, unfortunately it can't be allowed to persist in its current shape.

So it is war then?

What else could it be? Russia already lost more men then during their entire invasion on Afghanistan.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#530

Post by throwaway2037 »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #491
stingraycharles wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an extremely important nuance which is not obvious from the title.

Most of the people using GA wouldn't be able to set it up correctly. I switched my personal site from GA to Microanalytics, since I wanted to avoid spending time trying to figure out how to configure GA to be conformant. Google should be the one doing the compliance work. If Italy bans some usage pattern in GA, it's Google that should make it impossible to configure it in non-conformant way.

I agree 100% with your second paragraph. I also hope they introduce massive "percent of revenue" fines when Google "forgets" to ban illegal activity on their (near-monopoly) advertising platform. Massive fines has genuinely changed the behaviour of sales & trading at global investment banks. We can do the same for FAANG and friends.
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