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Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

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Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#501

Post by xvinci »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #433
kixiQu wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if anyone is curious about why that gives the govt. access: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act (God willing they repeal it, even if only for the international commerce implications...)

something I'm not getting here. If you buy a EU engineered IoT home appliance that has PII including, whether a user is presently inside their home, then every company I know operating in this market uses US based clouds (what other options are there LOL) to do things like digital twin or device shadows but by using a local availability zone. So this is very different than GA, but depending on the threat-model can be…

(what other options are there LOL)

It is a hot topic, here are a few: IONOS - https://cloud.ionos.com/ Onep Telekom Cloud - https://open-telekom-cloud.com/en

But if you want to do scale in Europe you have to go for OVH: https://www.ovhcloud.com/en/

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#502

Post by rightbyte »

Forge36 wrote: post #113
rightbyte wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Empty pools are probably more dangerous.

I hear they attract skaters.

Those pools don't have sharp drops and are rather safe I guess. I wonder if that is the reason some pools are built like that ...

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#503

Post by 4ggr0 »

makeitdouble wrote: post #453
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #428

I'd be terrified if I was a EU company at this point. There is not logically way these same rules don't apply to using AWS, GCP, and Azure. There isn't enough other cloud hosting with nearly the same capabilities in Europe to handle that day.

GCP and Azure have options to keep all data within the EU, I'm sure AWS has something to at this point. In France GCP is approved for public business, so it seems to be working fine. On your general point, we're way past the point where a company is allowed to blindly use any random SaaS without caring about what it does with the data or where it goes. The pendulum is clearly swinging back.

> GCP and Azure have options to keep all data within the EU

I wonder how much of a difference this makes, if the DCs still belong to these american companies and this thing exists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#504

Post by sebazzz »

digitalengineer wrote: post #121
corywatilo wrote: post #18

Italy is the 4th in a string of recent decisions across the EU. (We're tracking these cases on isgoogleanalyticsillegal.com along with details for each.) Note that it's not illegal to use GA entirely, just illegal to use in its default state which transmits PII to the US.

Some time ago Google gave EU admins the option to select a local regional (EU) server. This means the data is not send to the US. But! It’s still nog fully legal as the Google HQ (and thus the US government( can still access all the data.

On the last point: how does that work with cloud computing providers, as all the big ones are US-based?

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#505

Post by mattmcknight »

leephillips wrote: post #258
mattmcknight wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To website visitors: if you see a cookie banner, the site is asking permission to spy on you. Or you know...count how many unique visitors they have and how to make the site more useful. Do you avoid using cookies on this site but still manage to log in?

Do you know the difference between cookies and a cookie banner? Do you understand why this site can have login sessions, and even keep track of the number of unique visitors, yet is not required to have a cookie banner?

What do you think the _ga attribute is in their cookie?

Isn't there an exception for authentication in the consent requirement, but not in the inform requirement?

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#506

Post by nedt »

y42 wrote: post #429
m3adow wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you still have to provide a cookie banner as soon as your analytics are storing cookies, even if it's your own?

> Don't you still have to provide a cookie banner as soon as your analytics are storing cookies, even if it's your own? You need consent for every kind of storage usage on client side if you create profiles to analyze the them for marketing goals. If not, and no PII is being processed, no consent is required. Eg you could easily aggregate your server logs without a consent.

But that means you shouldn't have IP or user-agent or any unique identifier in the path.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#507

Post by kixiQu »

toyg wrote: post #451
kixiQu wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if anyone is curious about why that gives the govt. access: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act (God willing they repeal it, even if only for the international commerce implications...)

This will never be repealed. It was introduced to effectively enshrine a right US authorities have had since the PATRIOT Act was introduced 17 years prior, since that act had become politically contentious and was left to expire. If anybody seriously thinks US authorities will quietly lose a key power after enjoying it for 21 years, I have a few bridges ready to be sold.

No one said "quietly" -- but there has to be some threshold of backlash that would knock it back. My guess is that European privacy law could combine with it to do enough impact to large American businesses that they'd use their political weight to do something, whether or not it were to improve matters from the perspective of privacy/sovereignty.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#508

Post by nedt »

adrr wrote: post #434
rambambram wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congrats. We also chose to do the analytics ourselves. No tracking, no cookie banners, and probably better stats as well. One thing that Google did very cleverly was to only give GA users the search terms that visitors used to end up on their site.

How are you tracking returning users without cookies? Also if it’s multi-lingual, how are you storing the language prefs?

Why would you need that? All businsess that aren't online can't collect that data and we still have newspapers and supermarkets. If you are interested in that data just ask your users.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#509

Post by kixiQu »

concordDance wrote: post #488
kixiQu wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if anyone is curious about why that gives the govt. access: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act (God willing they repeal it, even if only for the international commerce implications...)

> (God willing they repeal it, even if only for the international commerce implications...) It's hard to express how impossible this is. It is very very strongly in the state's interest to keep powers like this. We're more likely to get communism...

This then comes down to whether you think the US govt. these past few decades is better at self-perpetuating power or toadying up to the demands of capital. Cynicism vs. cynicism!

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#510

Post by mattmcknight »

Kovah wrote: post #178
mattmcknight wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To website visitors: if you see a cookie banner, the site is asking permission to spy on you. Or you know...count how many unique visitors they have and how to make the site more useful. Do you avoid using cookies on this site but still manage to log in?

Cookies needed to properly provide user authentication, i.e. user session identification, are counted as "technical necessary" cookies and do not need a cookie banner. You only need to ask for cookie consent, if you track visitors with third-party services. And, to counter your unique visitors claim: you don't need cookies, or any third party service, for that. Everything can be done locally without disrespecting use…

> and, to counter your unique visitors claim: you don't need cookies, or any third party service, for that. Everything can be done locally without disrespecting user privacy.

how do track unique visitors without cookies, and how is that way less "disrespecting" of user privacy than a cookie?

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