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As weed gets more potent, teens are getting sick

nytimes.com

431–440 of 686 posts

Re: As weed gets more potent, teens are getting sick

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a substance that can lend itself really well to the creative aspects if used in moderation and with something like taking continuous notes so you don't lose those thoughts and ideas. I've come up with some really great stuff while moderately stoned, and while I don't consume it on a daily anymore, I can't understate the importance of having some way of recording those thoughts as soon as you come up with…

Drug use can be a good excuse to put some time aside to let your mind wander, so I see why people end up getting creative on THC. And if you practice creativity while stoned, it makes sense that you'll be more creative while stoned. Like my friend who learned to juggle high, and yet cannot do it when he's sober.

I think it's a bit more than that. It makes your mind wander in different directions, in a way that lends itself to things like writing original jokes or coming up with a different angle on problems or ideas that can be solved with more 'out of the box' solutions. It does something to the associative memory in which it makes associations which you wouldn't normally assert (Which is where I think a lot of people who don't enjoy it end up paranoid - a healthy dose of critical thought and reasoning going into these experiences may be helpful, along with keeping the dose relatively low).

That said since it does have a thought-scattering thing going for it that if you don't bother to try and focus on getting those scattered thoughts on to something which records them, it's kind of a waste of time if we're talking about using it for purely utilitarian reasons.

Re: As weed gets more potent, teens are getting sick

#432
post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching your child being content to work at Taco Bell for the next 50 years is not something to be proud of. Regardless of contentment.

I'd be proud of it, if they were a good person, took care of themselves, took care of the people around them, and were truly happy in their lives. Some people are perfectly happy working low-level positions in restaurants, sanitation, retail, and the like for their lives, and maybe maintaining a few hobbies and relationships that give them personal meaning off their work hours. It's only a problem if they aren't actu…

> I'd be proud of it, if they were a good person, took care of themselves

I honestly don't know how anyone (good person or not) can properly take care of themselves on a Taco Bell hourly salary.

Re: As weed gets more potent, teens are getting sick

#433
Quantity, it's said, has a quality all its own.

Anyone who wants to look at their personal unproblematic weed use and conclude that it's totally, universally impossible for today's weed concentrates to be a problem for anyone really isn't thinking straight. There is a difference between concentrates and flower. Once you're habitually using something that's 50%+ THC, "normal" weed just doesn't cut it anymore. You need to start upping the ante just to feel high at all. People call this "tolerance" but IMO that word obscures what's actually happening. Namely, you can only put so many feel-good chemicals in the human brain before you hit diminishing returns. Trying to keep the good times rolling may cause you to blow past your body's ability to metabolize the chemicals away without consequences. I've been a stoner for 12+ years and have had to learn my limits the hard way. I really feel for the girl in this article, and anyone else who's struggling with their weed use in a culture that repeatedly insists there is "no unsafe dose."

Re: As weed gets more potent, teens are getting sick

#434
People should be highly skeptical of distillates, vape cartridges, waxes, and edibles. This is a new frontier and largely unregulated. You never truly know what you're getting. Even at "regulated" dispensaries the QC is garbage.

Dry herb vaporizing is the optimal way to consume. You can pick the strain and set the exact temperature with far less ambiguity. You can even control the supply by growing it yourself.

It is changing the federal schedule is the best course of action. We are not benefitting by flying blind, and consumption won't go down simply because people would prefer it.

Re: As weed gets more potent, teens are getting sick

#435
post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the way that South Park put it (in the voice of Randy Marsh) many years ago was just about perfect: “Well, Stan, the truth is marijuana probably isn't gonna make you kill people, and ...it most likely isn't gonna fund terrorists, but... Well son, pot makes you feel fine with being bored and... It's when you're bored that you should be learning some new skill or discovering some new science or... being creat…

> it most likely isn't gonna fund terrorists Afghanistan?

I don't know if it is the same in Europe, but Marijuana in North America tends to be produced in the country it is consumed. In most places where it is legalized in the states and canada you can even find out exactly what farm it was that produced it.

More than I can say for the food I eat.

Re: As weed gets more potent, teens are getting sick

#436

This line has been reliably trotted out every few years since the 1990s at least: But experts say today’s high-THC cannabis products — vastly different than the joints smoked decades ago — are poisoning some heavy users, including teenagers. The issue is that people adjust their consumption accordingly, just as with alcohol - drinking one liter of beer, everyone knows, is not the same as drinking one liter of vodka.…

You are wrong.

CBD is a very effective antipsychotic that occurs naturally alongside the THC: https://academic.oup.com/schizbullopen/article/3/1/sgab053/6...

What percent of products sold for recreational use in dispensaries have a 1:1 or greater ratio of CBD?

So no, there actually is a confirmable mechanism by which the legal product being sold today is significantly less safe in terms of psychosis related side effects than the illegal products from years ago.

And everyone is still so sensitive to regulatory overreach from those years ago that they are stubbornly turning a blind eye to the underlying pharmacological evidence for that danger.

10mg of THC alone and 10mg of THC with 10-20mg of CBD will have very similar euphoric effects. But the latter will be much less likely to result in delusional side effects, for which constant daily use can build up into a full-blown psychotic episode as in the case mentioned in the article.

Re: As weed gets more potent, teens are getting sick

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it's almost impossible to find the "beer" of weed now. Almost all weed has been upgraded to be super powered. If I want a joint, I have to use tobacco or catnip to fill it out unless I want to be steaming. I also think that the weed culture is hostile against suggestions of problems. Almost every time I have spoken about possible dangers of weed, even when presenting peer reviewed articles or meta…

yeah very high percentage THC in nearly every variant of weed these days, for me having a joint with tiny sprinkles of weed completely fucks me up, I just choose to have hash with lower THC percentage, plus hash tastes nice. I think that the really strong stuff should be for medical patients, or people with really high tolerance, because for a teenager that doesn't know what it can do, it can really ruin them if they…

In most countries we don’t have such freedom of choice, so we only get the high THc stuff

Re: As weed gets more potent, teens are getting sick

#438
post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watching your child being content to work at Taco Bell for the next 50 years is not something to be proud of. Regardless of contentment.

I'd be proud of it, if they were a good person, took care of themselves, took care of the people around them, and were truly happy in their lives. Some people are perfectly happy working low-level positions in restaurants, sanitation, retail, and the like for their lives, and maybe maintaining a few hobbies and relationships that give them personal meaning off their work hours. It's only a problem if they aren't actu…

> I'd be proud of it, if they were a good person, took care of themselves, took care of the people around them, and were truly happy in their lives

I'd be happy for them. I wouldn't be proud. An infinite amount of possible achievements is no excuse not to strive for anything.

Re: As weed gets more potent, teens are getting sick

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is largely the problem with mobile phones as well. Like you probably aren't going to go mad or get rectangular eyes or whatever, but you can just sort of sedate that sensation of boredom with scrolling reddit or facebook or whatever, which does all of bupkis for making us happy in the long term.

This is the same argument with all consuming vs producing. It's why there was a moral panic in the 1800s over Jane Austen style fiction, in the 1930s over radio, and so on. Being addicted to cannabis is not really any different to playing computer games 12 hours a day, doing endless marathons, watching sports, investing, or many similar activities.

Maybe they all were right.

Re: As weed gets more potent, teens are getting sick

#440
post #383
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> belittle people for being "stupid or naive." CHS is not rare, nor does it require extreme dosage. It affects approximately 7% of smokers. Allow me to quote directly from the article linked to by you, > Patients between the ages of 18-49 years who reported smoking marijuana at least 20 days per month. Among 2127 patients approached for participation, 155 met inclusion criteria as smoking 20 or more days per month. A…

You're now making inflammatory claims about how you understand statistics better than NYU scientists and professors. Yet, all you've actually done is invent some numbers in your head and call them statistics, while also redefining bias. You even conveniently left out the rest of the researchers' quote which shows your premise is utter nonsense: "If this is extractable to the general population, approximately 2.75 mil…

My friend, I am trusting academia, but I also know how flawed it can be. If anyone has a bias right now, it seems to be you and the bias is towards always trusting academic research without thinking for yourself.

> "If this is extractable to the general population, approximately 2.75 million (2.13-3.38 million) Americans may suffer annually from a phenomenon similar to CHS."

Well, it is most definitely not extractable, that's why they also wrote "if". The dataset is abysmally small, biased and the filters/conditions applied not nearly strict or valid enough to come to these conclusions.

They are also, at exactly this point, completely contradicting their own research and rationale, as well as your claims:

> 2127 patients approached for participation, 155 met inclusion criteria as smoking 20 or more days per month.

2127 patients that are already in the ER, for various possible reasons. Invalid dataset.

> 155 met inclusion criteria as smoking 20 or more days per month. Among those surveyed, 32.9% (95% CI, 25.5-40.3%) met our criteria for having experienced CHS

This would mean, by their and/or your logic:

- that out of a "general population" dataset, 7% smoke >= 20 days a month, which on a side note absolutely conflicts with other statistics on weed consumption

- even if that was the case, there is absolutely no way to infer from ER patients back to the general population

- even if that was a valid line of thinking, it would imply that: Out of 35 million cannabis smokers, there are 23 million that smoke weed more than 20 days a month (right..), and since they claim that 33% of them seem to have experienced CHS, this would imply that around 7.5 million of 35 million smokers have potentially experienced CHS.

You know what that is? 21% of all cannabis consumers. I don't think so. Their logic is flawed. ER patients are not a neutral slice of the population. You have absolutely no way of inferring back to the general population without knowing how and how much the dataset is skewed. This also shows very clearly that even if the dataset is at least somewhat valid, their pre-selection and applied conditions are absolutely bogus and not suitable.

> In fact, you're introducing your own concocted bias, because you've limited the dataset to the ER visits and not the population.

The dataset IS limited to a group of patients in the ER, you knucklehead. That's what was used to generate the dataset in the first place. A subset of people they found in an ER. Exclusively. That's a bias that almost certainly invalidates the whole calculation. You also have no way of inferring back to the population from it.

> You're now suggesting that these situations aren't actually marjiuana-related at all, but instead some other drug overdose that the ER staff totally missed.

Because I wrote "overdose", and not "THC overdose" or "cannabis overdose"? Sorry man, but.. if anyone is trolling here, it must be you.

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