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A subreddit dedicated to busting shoplifters

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Re: A subreddit dedicated to busting shoplifters

#141

Post by beej71 »

tmaly wrote: post #87
mikysco wrote: post #7

The article strangely seems like it's framing the entire industry/profession of loss prevention in a negative light. Hopefully everyone realizes the more retail theft a store experiences, the higher prices become for those of us who pay... and the more likely a store is to shut down if theft becomes too prevalent. I'm not here defending a subreddit I've never visited but in general, those in the loss prevention indus…

I have two stories around most policies. My nephew works at home depot. He stepped in front of a shoplifters cart, and they demoted him. I was picking up something at an Apple store in the mall. An Apple employee is helping me with some questions on adapters. A guy walks in right next to us and proceeds to start taking stuff and stuffing it in his shirt. I asked the Apple employee what is he going to do. He said noth…

All I can think is that this must be the cheaper route for businesses, or they wouldn't do it that way.

Re: A subreddit dedicated to busting shoplifters

#142

Post by beej71 »

colpabar wrote: post #89
thrway3344444 wrote: post #74

I'm historically a very liberal San Francisco resident. But I'm finding it really hard to understand the amount of shoplifting going on at my local Walgreens (Mission and 30th). I visit the Walgreens about once a week mostly for diapers and covid test kits. I go at various times of day. About 1 in 4 times I'm there I've witnessed shoplifting. Mostly groups of teens and, in my uninformed assessment, not struggling fin…

>They seem to be doing it for the thrill. Like a sport. I will admit that I sometimes steal candy/snacks from convenience stores for this exact reason. There is a very real thrill involved in getting away with something, and I've (mostly jokingly) considered going to SF just to steal things from convenience stores. It really seems like a no brainer why this is happening more often. If, as a child, your parents said "…

> Has no one else ever just stolen stuff for the fun of it?

I'm sure they have, but not me. It's definitely against my moral code and, as such, is not fun no matter how easy it hard it is.

Re: A subreddit dedicated to busting shoplifters

#143

Post by gretch »

slg wrote: post #94
gretch wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah if a doctor said “I don’t really care about my patients’ lives. I just like the power of being able to prevent death” I really think that’s perfectly fine

That would be fine, but what if it is a slightly different "I don’t really care about my patients’ lives. I just like the power of having a hand in whether people live or die."? Doesn't that start to sound a little questionable? As Dan says "The goal is to protect the business — not to ruin people’s lives." Is Alex getting that "huge adrenaline rush" from protecting Walmart's property? Or is he getting that adrenalin…

Not to me. I don't trust peoples' self assessment of their own motivations or goals. Typically they paint themselves in some sort of distorted light and it really has no effect on their actual outcomes or deliverables.

Also, I can't think of a 'better' answer to that question really.

> I just do this to pay the bills

Okay, so he doesn't care at all what happened to me

> I really care about saving peoples' lives

Yeah, that's what I would say if I were an evil guy

All I would really care about is their surgery success rate and track record.

Re: A subreddit dedicated to busting shoplifters

#144

Post by logifail »

beej71 wrote: post #141
tmaly wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have two stories around most policies. My nephew works at home depot. He stepped in front of a shoplifters cart, and they demoted him. I was picking up something at an Apple store in the mall. An Apple employee is helping me with some questions on adapters. A guy walks in right next to us and proceeds to start taking stuff and stuffing it in his shirt. I asked the Apple employee what is he going to do. He said noth…

All I can think is that this must be the cheaper route for businesses, or they wouldn't do it that way.

> All I can think is that this must be the cheaper route for businesses, or they wouldn't do it that way

It might be for some businesses in some jurisdictions but that's not true at global scale. There's just not enough margin in retail to cover losses that way.

(Full disclosure: I'm currently working with a client on a loss prevention project, big retail stores are the customers)

Re: A subreddit dedicated to busting shoplifters

#145

Post by logifail »

jnovek wrote: post #93
trs8080 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Loss prevention is there to prevent loss - not make moral judgements. So that's just the way it is and it will never change? Maybe we should have less jobs where someone is authorized to use violent force and can check their morals at the door.

I have no idea why you were downvoted for this. “Loss prevention” is just private security and it’s definitely problematic. Through profiling it reinforces racism and classism. Can you imagine how unpleasant it must be to be treated with suspicion every time you walk into a Target? I think retailers could absolutely develop more compassionate ways of preventing things from being stolen, but why would they? There’s no…

> “Loss prevention” is just private security and it’s definitely problematic. Through profiling it reinforces racism and classism.

(Full disclosure: I'm currently working with a client on a loss prevention project, big retail stores are the customers)

I've got a CCTV video in front of me right now showing a retail store being robbed late at night, a guy wearing a hoodie broke into the store, violently attacked three checkouts, and left with an estimated three figure cash payday, in approximately three minutes. The physical damage done to the store done during the attack, and lost revenue when the store was closed the following days for repairs, far exceeded the value of the cash the attacker escaped with.

Loss prevention is about stopping the bad guys from stealing your stuff (whether that's goods or cash).

I've no idea why one would think profiling (or racism) should have anything to do with this?

Re: A subreddit dedicated to busting shoplifters

#146

Post by feet »

josephcsible wrote: post #139
feet wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overdoing it means you're doing your job badly, so yea that's exactly it

I agree that overdoing it is bad. I disagree that people shouldn't have jobs they enjoy just because you think that might make them overdo it.

What's that saying about politicians and those who want power?

Give power to the ones who don't want it because they'll be the best arbiter. They won't chase power for the sake of power

Maybe we should do the same thing for cops/security. Those who are likely to commit abuses should never be given the chance

Re: A subreddit dedicated to busting shoplifters

#147

Post by seanmcdirmid »

feet wrote: post #138
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many paths to addiction for sure. But a medical condition isn't the only path, or even the common one; just making a lot of bad choices can get you there also. However once they get there, they have little desire to not be there. How can you get someone off drugs if they aren't interested in getting off drugs? And not only that, decriminalization has made it very easy to get drugs and has made your city the…

Decriminalization and full legalization is what we need to combat the drug problem. Essentially all of the harm comes from prohibition not the drugs themselves, I'm saying this as a neuropharmacologist. That's one of the super shitty policies that we love in the US

> Decriminalization and full legalization is what we need to combat the drug problem.

Do you mean the problem will solve itself naturally if we let them do all the drugs they want? Yes, that's true, but it is a very morbid way of going about solving the problem.

Re: A subreddit dedicated to busting shoplifters

#148

Post by jnovek »

logifail wrote: post #145
jnovek wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea why you were downvoted for this. “Loss prevention” is just private security and it’s definitely problematic. Through profiling it reinforces racism and classism. Can you imagine how unpleasant it must be to be treated with suspicion every time you walk into a Target? I think retailers could absolutely develop more compassionate ways of preventing things from being stolen, but why would they? There’s no…

> “Loss prevention” is just private security and it’s definitely problematic. Through profiling it reinforces racism and classism. (Full disclosure: I'm currently working with a client on a loss prevention project, big retail stores are the customers) I've got a CCTV video in front of me right now showing a retail store being robbed late at night, a guy wearing a hoodie broke into the store, violently attacked three…

Yet… 2/3 of black people have reported to being treated with suspicion in a retail setting.

What’s the disconnect? You, someone who ostensibly works in the loss prevention industry claim that racism is not a factor; but black people, as polled by Gallup, don’t seem to agree.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/shoppi...

Re: A subreddit dedicated to busting shoplifters

#149

Post by feet »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #147
feet wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decriminalization and full legalization is what we need to combat the drug problem. Essentially all of the harm comes from prohibition not the drugs themselves, I'm saying this as a neuropharmacologist. That's one of the super shitty policies that we love in the US

> Decriminalization and full legalization is what we need to combat the drug problem. Do you mean the problem will solve itself naturally if we let them do all the drugs they want? Yes, that's true, but it is a very morbid way of going about solving the problem.

No, it removes the extra harm created by our bad policies such as a lack of regulation leading to a fentanyl tainted supply of heroin

We can still age restrict like we do with alcohol, we could even implement a licensing system where, similar to driving, education requirements must be met in order to purchase a given substance. There are many different things we can do, and nearly all of them are better than our current system

Not to mention I'm only discussing the effect on direct users, our foreign policy concerning substance legality in other could tries has absolutely wreaked havoc. Not only through our treaties with European countries but especially south america

In the US anyone can already drink as much alcohol as they want, smoke as many cigarettes. Both of those have immensely harmful health implications, generally worse than other drugs such as cannabis, MDMA, LSD, or even heroin. Heroin won't give you cancer, neither will LSD and no, the short term effects of those drugs do not make them worse, that's a load of shit spread by incorrect government propaganda

There is evidence from multiple countries now that supplying people who have a current addiction with clean, high quality drugs and gives them a safe environment to use reduces deaths, new addictions, and harm overall. Yet here we are, throwing people with problems in jail like that's somehow sensible. Its not, not even close. The way the US treats people with issues is absolutely disgusting

Re: A subreddit dedicated to busting shoplifters

#150

Post by Nasrudith »

sosborn wrote: post #18
josephcsible wrote: post #5

> “A lot of people are like, ‘How, morally, can you do this job?’” How did people's moral compasses get so corrupt that instead of believing stealing is immoral, they believe that stopping other people from stealing is immoral?

I think that for some people, a lifetime of watching morally bankrupt corporations post record profits while your wages remains stagnant (made even more painful by inflation) can make it easy to fall in to the "If they can do it why can't I" trap.

Ah the syllogism of thieves perverse projection: I want it. You have it. Therefore stealing it "back" is justified.
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