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It's not acceptable that Google does not offer support to users

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Re: It's not acceptable that Google does not offer support to users

#41

Post by logicalmonster »

romanhn wrote: post #38
gist wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a little sympathetic to Google here, because there's no way that they can offer real customer service to the entire Internet. I run some small businesses and get dumb phone calls all of the time from confused people thinking that my random shop has anything to do with their phone plan or email issues or a problem with their cable bill or anything else under the sun because they ended up at my store after puttin…

> The fact that you give something away at no charge (but actually make money or even if you don't make money) is not a reason you can then walk away and not have any responsibility at all for anything and everything. (Or shouldn't be). I'm very sympathetic to OP's situation, I have also lost an account with years of irreplaceable emails to Google's finicky algorithms. But this right here is a slippery slope I would…

If Google just offered no support for their free products, that would be one thing that might be a little understandable. But they even treat their customers for their paid products this way.

Re: It's not acceptable that Google does not offer support to users

#42

Post by cs137 »

aeternum wrote: post #36
cs137 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about their search engine? I knew someone who worked as a "reputation hit man". I don't know what his rate is today, but back in the 2000s, he would, for $500, impersonate and defame a person all over the internet. Most of his clients were corporate executives trying to take out competitors for promotions. He may be out of that business, but it still exists and the practice is widespread. Google knows about this…

The US has defamation laws that you might be able to leverage. This seems to only be very tangentially related to google, what about other search engines or the websites that host the content?

Damages for defamation are hard to prove.

If someone with a million followers says on Twitter, "I don't like Bob", then Bob is never going to get hired anywhere, but there's no legal case. Indeed, the person voicing the opinion didn't break any laws or do anything wrong--the problem, rather, is with employers who refuse to hire anyone remotely controversial (and who, in doing so, implement "cancel culture", although it's always been the left that is most viciously cancelled).

Free speech is important, but we need to regulate the shit out of search engines and employers in order to protect people from unearned reputation damage.

Re: It's not acceptable that Google does not offer support to users

#43

Post by cycomanic »

logicalmonster wrote: post #24

1) There have been Googlers who have posted on HN about their customer service, and the ones that have posted seem to think their algorithms are good enough and don't really make the connection that every false positive is a real human or business that might lose a business or worse when they can't access their data. My interpretation of this is that either they're fine with being evil, or Google's average employees…

> 2) I'm a little sympathetic to Google here, because there's no way that they can offer real customer service to the entire Internet. I run some small businesses and get dumb phone calls all of the time from confused people thinking that my random shop has anything to do with their phone plan or email issues or a problem with their cable bill or anything else under the sun because they ended up at my store after putting certain keywords into Google. I have no doubt that Google would receive hundreds of thousands of mostly dumb, useless calls daily that they are not responsible for from every confused person out there. There's no feasible way to provide standard customer service to the entire Internet.

I think you are way to sympathetic to Google here. Just look at what the size of your company is compared to Googles in terms of profit/revenue. So they should be able to spend that much more time/resources on dealing with customer support even if that means dealing with some stupid folks calling then because they can't find the chrome icon on their desktop. I mean you are able to deal with stupid requests why should they?

Re: It's not acceptable that Google does not offer support to users

#45

Post by cycomanic »

romanhn wrote: post #38
gist wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a little sympathetic to Google here, because there's no way that they can offer real customer service to the entire Internet. I run some small businesses and get dumb phone calls all of the time from confused people thinking that my random shop has anything to do with their phone plan or email issues or a problem with their cable bill or anything else under the sun because they ended up at my store after puttin…

> The fact that you give something away at no charge (but actually make money or even if you don't make money) is not a reason you can then walk away and not have any responsibility at all for anything and everything. (Or shouldn't be). I'm very sympathetic to OP's situation, I have also lost an account with years of irreplaceable emails to Google's finicky algorithms. But this right here is a slippery slope I would…

> > The fact that you give something away at no charge (but actually make money or even if you don't make money) is not a reason you can then walk away and not have any responsibility at all for anything and everything. (Or shouldn't be).

> I'm very sympathetic to OP's situation, I have also lost an account with years of irreplaceable emails to Google's finicky algorithms. But this right here is a slippery slope I would never wish for. Offering a free product should absolutely not entitle any random user to any kind of support. I should be able to release a product (whether open-source, free, or paid) and decide for myself and my business the level of support I want to provide, without an obligation to respond to everyone, or maintain it forever.

I argue there is a big difference between giving something away as open source and giving something away and indirectly making money through e.g. advertising. For example if there are two game companies one makes a game that you have to pay for to play and the other makes money through in game ads, should they both not give the same support for their games? The users pay for them just in different ways.

Re: It's not acceptable that Google does not offer support to users

#46

Post by aeternum »

cs137 wrote: post #42
aeternum wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has defamation laws that you might be able to leverage. This seems to only be very tangentially related to google, what about other search engines or the websites that host the content?

Damages for defamation are hard to prove. If someone with a million followers says on Twitter, "I don't like Bob", then Bob is never going to get hired anywhere, but there's no legal case. Indeed, the person voicing the opinion didn't break any laws or do anything wrong--the problem, rather, is with employers who refuse to hire anyone remotely controversial (and who, in doing so, implement "cancel culture", although…

>we need to regulate the shit out of search engines and employers in order to protect people from unearned reputation damage.

No we don't, in fact not fixing this provides plausible deniability which in many cases is more valuable.

Re: It's not acceptable that Google does not offer support to users

#47

Post by [deleted] »

logicalmonster wrote: post #24

1) There have been Googlers who have posted on HN about their customer service, and the ones that have posted seem to think their algorithms are good enough and don't really make the connection that every false positive is a real human or business that might lose a business or worse when they can't access their data. My interpretation of this is that either they're fine with being evil, or Google's average employees…

[deleted]

Re: It's not acceptable that Google does not offer support to users

#48

Post by cs137 »

aeternum wrote: post #46
cs137 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damages for defamation are hard to prove. If someone with a million followers says on Twitter, "I don't like Bob", then Bob is never going to get hired anywhere, but there's no legal case. Indeed, the person voicing the opinion didn't break any laws or do anything wrong--the problem, rather, is with employers who refuse to hire anyone remotely controversial (and who, in doing so, implement "cancel culture", although…

>we need to regulate the shit out of search engines and employers in order to protect people from unearned reputation damage. No we don't, in fact not fixing this provides plausible deniability which in many cases is more valuable.

Plausible deniability for whom? Employers? Which side are you on?

If we don't regulate employers and the decisions they make, people will continue being denied jobs for stupid reasons.

In the ongoing war against fascism, moderation is no virtue and extremity is no vice.

Re: It's not acceptable that Google does not offer support to users

#49

Post by 293984j29384 »

rg111 wrote: post #11
runjake wrote: post #9

> I already knew Google didnt offer email or telephone support For those who still haven't moved off of Google for important work, let this person's story serve as your final warning and get migrated to another platform with good support.

Which one would you recommend?

For e-mail, I can't recommend migadu.com enough. Great plans, very reasonable prices. The interface is a little clunky but you get used to it.

Re: It's not acceptable that Google does not offer support to users

#50

Post by logicalmonster »

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #40
logicalmonster wrote: post #24

1) There have been Googlers who have posted on HN about their customer service, and the ones that have posted seem to think their algorithms are good enough and don't really make the connection that every false positive is a real human or business that might lose a business or worse when they can't access their data. My interpretation of this is that either they're fine with being evil, or Google's average employees…

>Google's average employees aren't quite as smart as public perception portrays. Intelligence is a funny thing. People can be the world’s foremost expert in whatever the heck, don’t matter for my point, and be utterly incompetent in every other area of their life if someone else is picking up for them. Think of career scientists giving humiliating public speeches for the first time since high school (industry confere…

> Providing support should be required by law.

I'm always extremely wary of the unintended consequences of legislation, and I think such a requirement could create really negative incentives. If organizations were forced to be on the hook for customer service of anything they put online, creating any free stuff would present a business risk. You could say goodbye to many free services online with such a path forward.

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