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The end of the world is just beginning for shipping

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221–230 of 483 posts

Re: The end of the world is just beginning for shipping

#221
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you have to agree that in the face of declining populations and ageing demographics, we will have to shift to a new economic model where growth isn’t the only goal Who exactly is setting growth as the "only goal"? It's really only developing countries and the tech sector. Japan and basically are of Europe is more or less fine with their stagnant GDP.

An economy without growth will fall apart. Yuval Noah Harari said it very well. Lenders only lend because there’s faith that $1 loaned today becomes more than $1 paid back tomorrow. Without growth there’s no incentive to lend. Without lending we’re looking at medieval level economies. It’s not the only thing we care about, but it’s a necessity. That being said growth can come in all shapes and sizes. Elevating everyo…

Yuval Noah Harari is the worst offender of the reductionist mindset. I can't even begin to understand how the WEF even listens to that uppity book peddler.

Re: The end of the world is just beginning for shipping

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. Go to any other country and you'll soon discover that the US isn't so bad. And I say that as a European who's been to quite a few countries.

America’s favorite pastime is fetishizing European countries as if they are heaven on earth

Um, no. My family are all immigrants from Europe. Most Americans are raised to despise Europe, and the situation's that resulted in our families having to flee to another continent with nothing (this manifests as being anti-big government, because we have family memory of big government banning our existence/trying to wipe us out). I don't think Europeans understand the average american's psyche or the damage it does when your country tries to eliminate your existence (Irish Catholic, Russian Jewish, small sect German, non-Catholic French descent here).

Re: The end of the world is just beginning for shipping

#223
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also some of these seem like almost vacuous statements. Predicting food insecurity(or any other type of insecurity) in the developing world is not a groundbreaking prediction.

Here’s one for you: He predicted the invasion of Ukraine back in this video from 2017 (actually earlier, but this was the easiest source for me to cite): https://youtu.be/rkuhWA9GdCo The whole video is pretty short, but he mentions Ukraine about 2 1/2 minutes in.

Russia had already invaded Ukraine in 2014. This is similar to claiming the US would invade some N+1 Middle eastern country. He makes a lot of claims and some of them happen to be right.

Re: The end of the world is just beginning for shipping

#224

I’ve been following Zeihan since his first book. I’m yet to find a credible counter argument to his theses. And he’s being proven right at an alarming pace this year. So far this year we’ve had: - A land war in Europe - Food insecurity in the developing world - Breakdown of supply chains and shipping routes - Nation states resorting to seizing each other’s ships (see Greece-Iran issue recently). Everything that he ha…

You can’t argue with demographics, so you wouldn’t have argued with Malthus? He was completely wrong, at the very least in timescale.

At the end of the day it does not matter much whether he is right or wrong. Our elites have quite the Malthusian outlook and it informs a lot of the decisions we are seeing on a global scale. Why do you think is there such a big push for reducing energy production?

Re: The end of the world is just beginning for shipping

#225
post #176

This is probably an unpopular opinion: it pains me to see the manufacturing industry decline in the US. I don't really mind paying $300 for a pair of shoes. Yes, it will be expensive, but then I'll just buy fewer pairs. In return, more people get decent jobs, or so I hope. And no, I'm not talking about just the so-called "low-end" manufacturing, but also the high end. Indeed, how can we even grow "high-end" talent if…

I've recently been surprised much better EU manufacturing is doing than US manufacturing. I don't think cost of labor is the only factor at play.

In what way? US manufacturing output is almost the same as the EU in absolute value.

Re: The end of the world is just beginning for shipping

#226

This is probably an unpopular opinion: it pains me to see the manufacturing industry decline in the US. I don't really mind paying $300 for a pair of shoes. Yes, it will be expensive, but then I'll just buy fewer pairs. In return, more people get decent jobs, or so I hope. And no, I'm not talking about just the so-called "low-end" manufacturing, but also the high end. Indeed, how can we even grow "high-end" talent if…

No post body was provided.

Re: The end of the world is just beginning for shipping

#227

China's Navy is now bigger than the US Navy. Few have noticed. China's third aircraft carrier, the Fujian, was launched last week. This is the lead ship of a new carrier class. Carrier #4 is said to be under construction at Dalian. (There's so much shipbuilding in China that it's hard to tell if a new hull is a warship or just another giant container ship.) These are not nuclear powered. That's expected with the next…

> China's Navy is now bigger than the US Navy. Few have noticed.

Measured in amount of ships/boats, yes. So is North Korea's navy, though.

It is not a very helpful way to compare naval power between countries.

Re: The end of the world is just beginning for shipping

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t argue with demographics, so you wouldn’t have argued with Malthus? He was completely wrong, at the very least in timescale.

Malthus only has to be right once and the timeline is completely irrelevant.

Nope. Malthus made his observation based on history. He just happened to do so at the worst possible time, as the next couple of centuries saw unprecedented advances in food production and distribution followed by the more developed countries getting their population in check

Re: The end of the world is just beginning for shipping

#229

This is probably an unpopular opinion: it pains me to see the manufacturing industry decline in the US. I don't really mind paying $300 for a pair of shoes. Yes, it will be expensive, but then I'll just buy fewer pairs. In return, more people get decent jobs, or so I hope. And no, I'm not talking about just the so-called "low-end" manufacturing, but also the high end. Indeed, how can we even grow "high-end" talent if…

US manufacturing output has not actually declined though - it has never been higher and has increased over 40% in the last 2 decades[1].

The perception of US manufacturing decline is widespread. My guess is that this perception is due to a number of factors. Other sectors of the US economy have grown more, so manufacturing now represents a smaller share. And also as productivity increases, fewer people are required to produce the same amount of output - so manufacturing workers make up a smaller share of the workforce than they did in the past. Both of these facts mean that manufacturing has less visibility in the US than it had. Finally, as poorer parts of the rest of the world have grown - the US's share of global manufacturing is smaller.

And by the way, there is absolutely no problem finding someone who will sell you a pair of US made shoes for $300 (or more) if that's what you want. There's a long list of US manufacturers who make high end boots and shoes.

[1] https://data.worldbank.org/share/widget?end=2019&indicators=...

Re: The end of the world is just beginning for shipping

#230

This is probably an unpopular opinion: it pains me to see the manufacturing industry decline in the US. I don't really mind paying $300 for a pair of shoes. Yes, it will be expensive, but then I'll just buy fewer pairs. In return, more people get decent jobs, or so I hope. And no, I'm not talking about just the so-called "low-end" manufacturing, but also the high end. Indeed, how can we even grow "high-end" talent if…

offshoring is short term optimization and has long term negative consequences by killing the entire ecosystem it takes to go from raw material to finished products. The problem is that economists only think 1st order effects, not 2nd and 3rd order.

Charlie Munger has a pretty good take on it and how many economists and our own government officials are in complete denial about it:

>Now let’s follow and second and third order consequences: You are more prosperous than you would have been if you hadn’t traded with China in terms of average well-being in the United States, right? Ricardo proved it. But which nation is going to be growing faster in economic terms? It’s obviously China. They’re absorbing all the modern technology of the world through this great facilitator in free trade, and, like the Asian Tigers have proved, they will get ahead fast. Look at Hong Kong. Look at Taiwan. Look at early Japan. So, you start in a place where you’ve got a weak nation of backward peasants, a billion and a quarter of them, and in the end they’re going to be a much bigger, stronger nation than you are, maybe even having more and better atomic bombs. Well, Ricardo did not prove that that’s a wonderful outcome for the former leading nation. He didn’t try to determine second order and higher order effects.

>If you try and talk like this to an economics professor, and I’ve done this three times, they shrink in horror and offense because they don’t like this kind of talk. It really gums up this nice discipline of theirs, which is so much simpler when you ignore second and third order consequences.

>The best answer I ever got on that subject – in three tries – was from George Schultz. [Schultz was an MIT economics professor before becoming Secretary of the Treasury and Secretary of State.] He said, “Charlie, the way I figure it is if we stop trading with China, the other advanced nations will do it anyway, and we wouldn’t stop the ascent of China compared to us, and we’d lose the Ricardo- diagnosed advantages of trade.” Which is obviously correct. And I said, “Well George, you’ve just invented a new form of the tragedy of the commons. You’re locked in this system and you can’t fix it. You’re going to go to a tragic hell in a handbasket, if going to hell involves being once the great leader of the world and finally going to the shallows in terms of leadership.” And he said, “Charlie, I do not want to think about this.” I think he’s wise. He’s even older than I am, and maybe I should learn from him.

Basically our leaders know we are in a horrible position and are counting on dying before the full consequences of their actions take effect.

it's funny how HN says outsourcing manufacturing is fine and has no negative consequences while going into a fury at the suggestion that software engineering can/should be outsourced. Both result in short term gains but long term negatives

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