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GitHub Copilot is generally available

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741–750 of 796 posts

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the code is nontrivial, then yes, it is a violation. To be in compliance, you need to write your own code. If I am writing a novel and I copy a section verbatim from another novel, I am infringing on the other novelist's copyright, regardless of whether I wrote it from memory or not. And this makes sense. For a trivial operation, there might be only one way to write the code. That's not copyright infringement, jus…

fair use != trivial

It's not about fair use. If you have a problem that can only be solved by one specific implementation, that implementation is not copyrightable because it has no creativity behind it.

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damages. This question will come back to damages. If you steal 10 lines of code from me, the damages will be the greater of: - The benefit to you (10 minutes programmer time) - The cost to me ($0) - Statutory damages (probably $200) In other words, it's very unlikely to be worth a lawsuit. The most likely outcome is: - A legal letter is sent - Infringing code is removed - As good bedside manner, some nominal amount o…

> - The benefit to you (10 minutes programmer time) That's an incomplete view. You're judging the value by the time it'd take to rewrite it. The real value is in knowing what to type and why. When Co-pilot suggests you a GPL code, it's main value is the knowledge , not the typing. That piece of knowledge may have taken a LOT of effort from an OSS team to acquire. Depending on the context, this knowledge would be wort…

> Depending on the context, this knowledge would be worth millions. Worth a lawsuit.

But it probably won't be worth millions of dollars. And that is why the lawsuit wont be worth it.

> That piece of knowledge may have taken a LOT of effort from an OSS team to acquire.

Anything "may" be possible. But it probably won't be worth that much.

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#743
post #195

I've been using Copilot non-stop on every hobby project I have ever since they've let me in (2021/07/13) and I am honestly flabbergasted they think it's worth 10$/mo. My experience using it till this day is the following: - It's an amazing all-rounder autocomplete for most boilerplate code. Generally anything that someone who's spent 5 minutes reading the code can do, Copilot can do just as well. - It's terrible if y…

I'm the CTO for a small(ish) software consultancy. $10/month is a no-brainer price for just the "amazing all-rounder autocomplete". Spending $10/month/dev to help maximize highly billable engineers? It's well worth the price.

[deleted]

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#744
post #731
post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. There's nothing magical about GPL code. Sticking a license on code doesn't suddenly lead to astronomical damages. No one has won billions of dollars on GPL enforcement. It's not how courts work. Contrary to popular belief, courts also won't compel compliance (e.g. releasing my code); if I break your license, the standard recourse is damages, whether that's GPL or All Rights Reserved. Otherwise, I'd make the First…

In this case, exchange is not fair, it's a scam, while in case of GPL, exchange is fair (code for code), so it's a valid open contract. You use my code, I use your.

Fair has nothing to do with it. Contracts don't need to be fair, and often aren't. They just need consideration. If we sign a contract whereby you give me your car, bank accounts, and house, for $1, that's a valid contract.

The only part which wouldn't be valid in a contract was the first-born child. That was a joke.

Indeed, if the GPL were a contract, courts might compel compliance.

However, the GPL is not a contract, it's a license. The FSF bent over backwards to make sure the GPL/AGPL licenses wouldn't be viewed as a contract, in part to limit liability / damages / risk.

Confusingly, some EULAs are framed contracts, contrary to the acronym, and do expose users to much more risk of liability than the GPL.

The relevant part of the GPL is:

    You are not required to accept this License in order to receive or
    run a copy of the Program. Ancillary propagation of a covered work 
    occurring solely as a consequence of using peer-to-peer transmission to 
    receive a copy likewise does not require acceptance. However, nothing 
    other than this License grants you permission to propagate or modify 
    any covered work. These actions infringe copyright if you do not accept 
    this License. Therefore, by modifying or propagating a covered work, you 
    indicate your acceptance of this License to do so.
Although we often like to take a plain-text read, but that's misleading; this is legal jargon. It's one of those bits of text which needs to be explained by a lawyer, and one who specializes in both licensing and in contract law.

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse yet, it's not available for the Orgs. So now each individual developer using it for work suddenly has to either pony up $10/month or figure out how to expense it.

I’m already terrified how many developers have been working on proprietary code bases with copilot, having an extension in their editor upload all their employer’s proprietary code to Microsoft, who then share it with OpenAI - then they’ve taken code OpenAI and Microsoft sent back to them, of unknown authorship, and added it into their code. And now those devs are going to have to go to their boss and explain all the…

I mean if your code is already hosted on Github, your builds done by github actions, and/or issues managed by github issues, it's not like giving MS that same code back is going to increase "liability" at all.

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#746
post #733
post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, exchange is not fair, it's a scam, while in case of GPL, exchange is fair (code for code), so it's a valid open contract. You use my code, I use your.

Copilot doesn't reuse code. None of the code it regurgitates has the required license.

I pasted a few segments of code I'd written in a prominent project. Copilot regurgitated paraphrased versions of the rest of that code. It'd be hard to argue it's not a derivative work.

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#747
post #3

What's the criteria for being considered "a maintainer of a popular open source project"? They never actually publish the criteria anywhere from what I can tell. They just say visit the subscription page and if you are eligible it should be available to you and if you see a charge then you are not eligible. I think though they should still be transparent about what their metric is for determining popular projects on…

I have 2 popular python projects, one with 4.9k and one with 2.3k stars and I don't qualify :/

https://github.com/kootenpv

If anyone knows why pls let me know

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#748
post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right on the money. What I want is a copilot that finds errors ala spellcheck-esque. Did I miss an early return? For example in the code below def some_worker if disabled_via_feature_flag logger.info("skipping some_worker") some_potentially_hazardous_method_call() Right after the logger call I missed a return. A copilot could easily catch this. Invert the relationship. I don't need some boilerplate generator, I need…

Business is trying to commoditize software development, because it's slow and expensive. All they have ever wanted, is to get their automation with the blanks filled in correctly, more or less immediately. No-code, visual programming, gherkin, even SQL are all prior attempts at reducing the expense of software development, and of sidestepping the expensive, excuse laden gatekeepers that are software developers. Copil…

Seeing the 10 dollar price tag has convinced me that you are right. This is a ploy to make a service that replaces developers not help them.

No way Microsoft made this investment for a measly 10 dollar subscription. There are not that many developers

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#749
post #746
post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copilot doesn't reuse code. None of the code it regurgitates has the required license.

I pasted a few segments of code I'd written in a prominent project. Copilot regurgitated paraphrased versions of the rest of that code. It'd be hard to argue it's not a derivative work.

Thank you for pointing that out!

I should have put "reuse" in quotes, since I meant copilot takes reuse one step further and replicates or regurgites code.

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#750
post #195

I've been using Copilot non-stop on every hobby project I have ever since they've let me in (2021/07/13) and I am honestly flabbergasted they think it's worth 10$/mo. My experience using it till this day is the following: - It's an amazing all-rounder autocomplete for most boilerplate code. Generally anything that someone who's spent 5 minutes reading the code can do, Copilot can do just as well. - It's terrible if y…

> licensing concerns I dismissed these concerns before I had early access. Then, _literally the first characters I typed_ after enabling the extension were `//`, and it autosuggested: // Copyright 2018 Google LLC I immediately uninstalled it. https://mobile.twitter.com/mrm/status/1410658969803051012/ph...

Both on a moral and practical sense copilot is a licensing nightmare
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