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GitHub Copilot is generally available

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Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#321

Post by yosito »

Hamcha wrote: post #195

I've been using Copilot non-stop on every hobby project I have ever since they've let me in (2021/07/13) and I am honestly flabbergasted they think it's worth 10$/mo. My experience using it till this day is the following: - It's an amazing all-rounder autocomplete for most boilerplate code. Generally anything that someone who's spent 5 minutes reading the code can do, Copilot can do just as well. - It's terrible if y…

> Due to the licensing concerns I did not use CoPilot at all in work projects

I've rarely found that CoPilot produces more than a line or two of accurate code. How likely is it that one would run into licensing issues with a single line of code that looks similar to something from another codebase?

While I understand the problem in principle, I am really skeptical that significant licensing issues would really come up with using CoPilot as an individual.

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#322

Post by foerbert »

jmkni wrote: post #306
Hamcha wrote: post #195

I've been using Copilot non-stop on every hobby project I have ever since they've let me in (2021/07/13) and I am honestly flabbergasted they think it's worth 10$/mo. My experience using it till this day is the following: - It's an amazing all-rounder autocomplete for most boilerplate code. Generally anything that someone who's spent 5 minutes reading the code can do, Copilot can do just as well. - It's terrible if y…

> I've been using Copilot non-stop > I am honestly flabbergasted they think it's worth 10$/mo These two statments seem contradictory to me. Why are you using it 'non-stop' if it isn't even worth $10/month?

I don't think they are contradictory at all. Aside from the basic "it has value, just less than $10/month" option, they may also just be interested in the tech and are evaluating it in actual use, etc.

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#323

Post by xenomachina »

baby wrote: post #78
dannytatom wrote: post #54

I've enjoyed using it for free, but not sure it's worth the $10/mo yet. When it works great, it's a nice-to-have for speeding up development but has yet to give me anything I wouldn't be able to just write myself. And when I wish it would give me the answer to something I don't know how to do, it spits out something very wrong. Also feels kind of icky to train on open source projects and then charge for the output.

> Also feels kind of icky to train on open source projects and then charge for the output. "open source is great, except when it's used in a way I don't like"

Open source licenses aren't a free-for-all. Many have terms like GPL's copyleft/share-alike or the attribution requirements of many other licenses. If copilot was trained on such code, then it seems that it, and/or the code it generates, violates those licenses.

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#325

Post by raunak »

jmkni wrote: post #306
Hamcha wrote: post #195

I've been using Copilot non-stop on every hobby project I have ever since they've let me in (2021/07/13) and I am honestly flabbergasted they think it's worth 10$/mo. My experience using it till this day is the following: - It's an amazing all-rounder autocomplete for most boilerplate code. Generally anything that someone who's spent 5 minutes reading the code can do, Copilot can do just as well. - It's terrible if y…

> I've been using Copilot non-stop > I am honestly flabbergasted they think it's worth 10$/mo These two statments seem contradictory to me. Why are you using it 'non-stop' if it isn't even worth $10/month?

Not OP - I use it non-stop for boiler plate filling as well.

I wouldn't use it for anything other than that, so I would say it's worth honestly at max $1/month.

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#326

Post by omginternets »

jmkni wrote: post #306
Hamcha wrote: post #195

I've been using Copilot non-stop on every hobby project I have ever since they've let me in (2021/07/13) and I am honestly flabbergasted they think it's worth 10$/mo. My experience using it till this day is the following: - It's an amazing all-rounder autocomplete for most boilerplate code. Generally anything that someone who's spent 5 minutes reading the code can do, Copilot can do just as well. - It's terrible if y…

> I've been using Copilot non-stop > I am honestly flabbergasted they think it's worth 10$/mo These two statments seem contradictory to me. Why are you using it 'non-stop' if it isn't even worth $10/month?

You overlooked an even bigger contradiction! Namely:

> The biggest problem I've had is not that it doesn't write correctly, it's that it think it knows how and then produce good looking code at a glance but with wrong logic.

I cannot rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that would provoke such a statement.

EDIT: upon careful rereading, I think I misunderstood. The intended meaning is likely closer to: the problem is less so that codepilot produces incorrect code and more so that its incorrect code appears correct at first glance.

You have my sincerest apologies. I leave this thread intact as a testament to my hair-trigger snark.

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#327

Post by omginternets »

visarga wrote: post #293
causi wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GitHub isn't liable. That's been established in court with regards to training AIs. Who is liable is you who may or may not have the legal right to use the code CoPilot spits out for you.

This has been explained many times - you can check word for word the output is original. All it takes is a bloom filter trained on the Copilot training set and an ngram extractor.

Alpha-equivalence be damned!

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#328

Post by CobrastanJorji »

tpxl wrote: post #165
danuker wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also its users might be violating the GPL. https://www.infoworld.com/article/3627319/github-copilot-is-...

How can the user be violating the license, not the distributor? If I give you a binary that gives you a Disney movie, it's not you violating the copyright, it's me. The copilot itself is violating the copyright, not its users.

"Your honor, I had no way of knowing that this mysterious device I purchased that manufactured shrinkwrapped Disney DVDs was violating copyright."

"Intent is not relevant to copyright infringement liability."

"But your honor, I heard on Hacker News that it was."

"I find you guilty."

"But your honor, copyright violation is usually a civil issue, and 'guilty' is a criminal trial concept."

"Well, I also get my legal training from Hacker News."

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#330

Post by qqqwerty »

rexreed wrote: post #238
threatofrain wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Github Copilot is on the fence for me between yes/no at $100 per year. I agree that you should rarely if ever allow Copilot to write multiple lines, as your double-checking or debugging time is going to exceed your time savings — the probability of good-looking but bad code is just that high right now. In order to experience a net time-win you'll likely want to be an intermediate at whatever you're doing. If it were…

Your decision making delta is really $40 a year? How much is your time worth?

I think "SAAS fatigue" is a thing that needs to be considered. The SAAS model is great for startups and companies seeking recurring revenue. But the modern developer stack now involves dozens of companies gunning for a $5-10/month slice of the pie.

In isolation, most developers could easily afford the $10/month for copilot. But most developers are probably using the free tier for half a dozen services. So the question isn't "Can I afford copilot?", but rather "Does copilot provide more value than upgrading plans on some other service?". For example, if you are using the free tier on Slack, maybe upgrading to the paid tier so you can access the full chat history provides way more value than copilot.

Also, another consideration is that $10 per month is certainly small. But I generally use software I purchase for multiple years. I would guess on average I use a piece of software for 3-5 years. If Copilot was offered for a single purchase price of $300-500, would you pay for it? Because that is likely how much you will spend over the lifetime of the subscription. For me, that price point is approaching the territory of professional tools like CAD software, Photo/video editing software, etc...

I can certainly see why Copilot would be worth $10/month. But I also could see why someone might be uncomfortable with that.

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