Sex is going out of fashion? • Hacker News Board

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#371

Post by moomoo11 » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:23 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #117

CodeSgt wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that all the things you listed are definitely culprits, but I wouldn't be so quick to discount porn. Anecdotally, I myself and many otherwise healthy, sociable young men I know have pretty serious porn addictions. I really wish there would be more research done on the negative impacts of pornography, especially on young men and teens/pre-teens. I know typically any anti-porn sentiment is met with "Oh you're j…

Yeah, but porn addiction is a consequence I think. If all men could get laid whenever they'd feel like it with a willing partner, then porn use would plummet. I haven't met many women into porn, probably because a one night stand is just a zero effort tinder swipe away, from the comfort of your pijamas in your living room. As a man, you end up turning to porn or paying for sex, or drinking or doing drugs, to compensa…

I wish there’s some discovery on another planet that makes people venture out like in the old days.

Fuck it I’ll lead or be part of a crew to get on a space ship and maybe never come back. Being stuck at a laptop all day is so fucking boring now because work from home means I’d rather not.

I want to be out and about. Not stuck inside ALL day (along with everyone else).

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#372

Post by heresie-dabord » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:24 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #3

I don't think tech or porn is the main culprit. It's that people now have way more entertainment options other than sex. Of course, a lot for those entertainment options are being driven by tech. Back in my dad's days, they were poor so the only entertainment options in their free time was drinking cheap home made alcohol, dancing and sex, while now we have gaming, Netflix, tic-tok, porn, traveling to the infinite In…

> people now have way more entertainment options other than sex

Another way to consider this is that people find it easier to divert themselves than to exert themselves only to be disappointed. (Think of the universal pain of the characters in "Marty". [1])

Even though the cost to "view" people has been cheapened by technology, what we find is that disappointment remains the likeliest outcome.

The article is written for humour, but it is worth noting that although "sex" cannot go out of fashion, the illusions of Bernaysian manipulation [2] certainly can. And, as a society with a changing set of prevailing group behaviours, the delights of companionship can certainly be lost.

An enjoyable sexual relationship isn't just a matter of presenting (or hunting for) some pastiche of beauty: people must want to charm and please one another. This cultural trait definitely has gone "out of fashion" in Western society.

Add to these discouraging considerations the fact that the financial calculation of a relationship (even if children are not planned) has much more risk today than even just 10 years ago.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_(film)

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#373

Post by oh_sigh » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:24 PM UTC

youessayyyaway wrote: post #153

buggythebug wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's also boring" "These threads are always fun, because they often say more about us commenters than the subject matter." I will not quote anything else from you and leave it at that.

I stand by it. If you do find sex to be the most fulfilling part of your life, it might be worth asking where that sense of fulfillment comes from. It's probably a "who", not a "what".

The two choices are sex can be boring, or the most fulfilling part of your life, but nothing in between?

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#374

Post by dialdial » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:25 PM UTC

CodeSgt wrote: post #166

lotsofpulp wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think an “addiction” is the problem. Obviously, everyone prefers the real thing to porn. What has changed is the availability of porn introducing an extremely low cost alternative to sex, reducing the impetus for making the effort to find a partner (relative to previous times). Maybe even reducing the impetus to putting in the effort to seduce an existing partner! Of course, it is not uniform across all men…

> Obviously, everyone prefers the real thing to porn. That makes intuitive sense, but is far from the reality. Many men, even in otherwise healthy relationships, prefer porn. Again I really wish more data was collected on this but anecdotally I've seen hundreds on online discussions from both women who are concerned about their partner and declining sex life and from men who want to quit using porn to better service…

Another piece of anecdata…

Ive experienced the effects of porn addiction, and/or viewing from a young age, from both sides.

I have pretty niche tastes since i started watching in my very early teens, and though i find men very attractive its harder to finish with them.

Ive been with several partners who preferred porn to me. The latest had very, very unrealistic standards. They objectified my body, hard, and I swear their porn use affected their capacity for empathy. They said and did things that made me feel like a replaceable thing, they compared my to porn stars (and found me lacking).

They would collect massive amounts of porn and run off to use it multiple times a day… which wouldve honestly been fine, except for the fact that it did really affect their ability to connect with me. After theyd use porn their mood and empathy / behavior towards me would markedly change for the worse.

I am a fairly attractive, _very_ willing and attentive partner.

These experiences have honestly really damaged my self esteem and willingness to date.

I have also since stopped using porn a) to fix the first line and b) i cannot watch it without being reminded of my experiences with these men and their criticisms of my body.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#375

Post by speedgoose » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:26 PM UTC

throwaway892238 wrote: post #330

Cool? If you're not making a baby, sex is mostly a meaningless waste of time. Would rather be focused on a productive pursuit, as opposed to how I can get someone to squish their body against my body for endorphins. I mean, when you get down to it, if the point of sex is 'cuz it feels good', why not just take drugs, or skydive, or eat an entire pepperoni pizza? Less chance of disease, you don't have to make yourself…

I am not sure how you can compare eating a pepperoni pizza and sex, but anyway, sex is not always about pleasuring yourself. It can be an intimate moment you share with someone you love. You can give pleasure too. It’s definitely not a waste of time.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#376

Post by freeone3000 » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:26 PM UTC

fttx_ wrote: post #148

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but porn addiction is a consequence I think. If all men could get laid whenever they'd feel like it with a willing partner, then porn use would plummet. I haven't met many women into porn, probably because a one night stand is just a zero effort tinder swipe away, from the comfort of your pijamas in your living room. As a man, you end up turning to porn or paying for sex, or drinking or doing drugs, to compensa…

I don't believe that's it. Plenty of men in relationships with a "willing partner" use heaps of porn, and in many circumstances prefer using porn to sex. And yes, having _sex_ is only a swipe away for women. But having decent sex that you enjoy and is another matter altogether. And that's before thinking about safety. If I was looking for reasons why fewer women seem to be into porn, I'd say it's because the vast maj…

Women are into different porn. Textual erotic works, spanning the gamut from romance novels to fanfiction, have been incredibly popular with women since the Victorian era. I'm not convinced at all that women are less interested in porn, simply because ao3 exists! It's that their usage isn't captured in a survey of video porn sites.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#377

Post by huachimingo » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:26 PM UTC

CodeSgt wrote: post #198

lotsofpulp wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what I am trying to convey is that it is not an addiction like nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, heroine, where the brain wants the substance itself. With porn, it is the brain making a cost benefit calculation that putting in the effort for the real thing is not worth the cost relative to cost/benefit ratio of porn. As in do I make all the effort to get my wife in the mood, or do I open a website and be done with…

I understand what you're trying to convey and I'm sorry but it's just not true. Brain scans show the pathways for porn addiction are very similar to those found in cocain and amphetamine addicts. Perhaps this is true for you, but don't discredit porn addiction as not a "real addiction" when it's an established fact that it is one on par with substance abuse.

An addiction can be sometimes a masked emotional need/problem.

-I want porn, because I carve intimacy

-I want to smoke, so I can relax or be seen as Y.

-I drink a lot of coffee because I dont have time for Quality Sleep.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#378

Post by standardUser » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:27 PM UTC

A lot of sex is not that great and therefore any overall reduction of sex may be a good thing, depending on which kind of sex we're having less of. Maybe a lot more married women are not having sex with their husbands, which traditionally was not always an option. Maybe young people are rushing less into big relationships, and so without a steady partner regular opportunities for sex are reduced while at the same time more bad relationships (and marriages) are avoided. Maybe people are engaging more in non-intercourse sexual activity now that access to information about kinks and fetishes is universal.

I say, let's stop stressing over the quantity of sex and instead focus on the quality of sex. We should want people to find partners where they can have open communication, and where they have similar desires and where they can share in enthusiastic consent. But this idea that "more penis in vagina = good" doesn't hold up to any scrutiny.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#379

Post by eropple » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:27 PM UTC

csee wrote: post #355

slothtrop wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything it's been more facilitated than ever.

For the top few percent of men.

Touching the poop in these threads is always a bad idea. And this is more to the passer-by who might be reading and thinking that the person to whom I am replying is onto something (edited; I don't think 'csee is being disingenuous). In these sorts of claims, "the top few percent" is never actually defined, and it means that folks who do quite well for themselves but aren't unironically studly chads have to be cut out of their narrative.

It is easier to assume that it's everyone's fault rather than your own, but I found that I did a lot better (not just romantically but--well--everywhere) when I worked on having reasons to like myself before I wanted other people to. The people who go on about "the top few percent of men" are most frequently so bitter that it can be detected from space, and that's a them problem. It was, for a while, a me problem. It requires concerted effort and desire to unscrew your head and to make yourself somebody you like, but it is doable. Therapy helps. So do honest friends who aren't in the same shitty boat you're in.

I am not fit, I am affluent but not rich, but I try to be decent and patient and kind (which is different from being needy), and I do pretty well for myself. Saying "just do X" would be lying because of the "just" part, but--you can do okay for yourself too. You probably have to work at it some.

Re: Sex is going out of fashion?

#380

Post by rjbwork » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 3:28 PM UTC

rowanG077 wrote: post #269

heretogetout wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why but there seems to be some outsized group of people that thrives on reducing social interactions to numbers. I remember seeing a lot of this in self-destructive subreddits (eg MGTOW). Maybe it's so they can write off self-improvement (you can't argue with math!)?

Isn't MGTOW a self-improvement sub?

No not really. As a person that nominally fits the label as stated, those MGTOW dudes are just toxic women haters. They have some kind of fucked up unresolved issues with women but it's all couched in some self-justifying logic.

Personally I'm just a lazy, irresponsible, and selfish person, so I think a life of relationships and children is not appropriate for me, so I don't pursue those things. That does not appear to be the case for most of the men who adopt the label. There seems to be genuine hate there.